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Is Spelljammer really that bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8851048" data-attributes="member: 23751"><p>I've responded to your claims about the Astral Adventures being setting. I've responded to your claims about the Rock being setting. And I've responded to your claims that monsters = setting. Those are your major points. What did I miss?</p><p></p><p>Just like the haiku and Odyssey, a movie short and a movie are also "the same." Do you think enough people would pay $30+ to go see a 3 minute movie short to keep the movie industry going? I don't. Substandard amounts of quantity, regardless of quality(and the 10 pages of Spelljammer campaign are not high quality) just don't cut it.</p><p></p><p>Yes. 99.99% of the Spelljammer setting has to be literally invented by me. To run the rock of Bral I would have to come up with 10-20x more information at a minimum than is provided for me, and that's the ONLY space location given to us. That means that every asteroid, moon, planet other than the primary setting, floating city or quite literally everything I come up with is setting that I have to come up with outside of what is given to me. Same with Astral setting locations. I have to create it 100% of those. Monsters =/= setting, so the MM and MoM aren't part of setting and aren't specifically Spelljammer anyway, so the lore of those creatures is not specifically Spelljammer setting in any case.</p><p></p><p>So yes, the 8 pages of setting material in the Adventures Guide and the 2(and I'm being generous) pages of monster lore that is actual setting in the Boo's Menagerie amounts to about .01 of what I would be using when it comes to Spelljammer.</p><p></p><p>Not even close. If you think I have more, your campaigns must be really, really small. </p><p></p><p>Let's take just 1 of the 14 captains. If he's that important to the campaign, I'd have to add the rest of the crew one by one, giving them names and a personality quirk. Create the officers in great detail. Modify the ship to make it unique, fleshing out each cabin, what goods the ship contains, their equipment, etc. Giving me "a captain" gives me very little of what I would need for just that one ship. </p><p></p><p>The Rock is woefully incomplete. Let's take Large Luigi's tavern. It gives me no visual, so I have to create that in great detail. It gives me no menu, so I have to create that as well. It gives me no real personality for him, so I have to create that in detail. It gives me no staff for him, so I have to create them with their personalities and quirks. What I'm given is less than 5% of what I would need.</p><p></p><p>So yes, having to create literally every space or astral location other than the Rock of Brak, detail all of the NPCs they give and that I make, plus detail out every location in the Rock of Bral since they are all substandard means that I'm doing 99.99% of the work on the setting.</p><p></p><p>Stop tossing out Red Herrings. A gate is not a door. A throne is not a chair. A hill is not a mountain. A pond is not an ocean. A shrub is not a Giant Sequoia. A mackerel is not a shark. Having some similarity does not make something the same.</p><p></p><p>Your Star Wars setting would suffer tremendously if you used those combat rules. I would not want to play in it. Your False Equivalence where you equate your personal Star Wars setting being bad for using horrible ship combat rules to all Star Wars settings being bad is..............................pretty bold.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8851048, member: 23751"] I've responded to your claims about the Astral Adventures being setting. I've responded to your claims about the Rock being setting. And I've responded to your claims that monsters = setting. Those are your major points. What did I miss? Just like the haiku and Odyssey, a movie short and a movie are also "the same." Do you think enough people would pay $30+ to go see a 3 minute movie short to keep the movie industry going? I don't. Substandard amounts of quantity, regardless of quality(and the 10 pages of Spelljammer campaign are not high quality) just don't cut it. Yes. 99.99% of the Spelljammer setting has to be literally invented by me. To run the rock of Bral I would have to come up with 10-20x more information at a minimum than is provided for me, and that's the ONLY space location given to us. That means that every asteroid, moon, planet other than the primary setting, floating city or quite literally everything I come up with is setting that I have to come up with outside of what is given to me. Same with Astral setting locations. I have to create it 100% of those. Monsters =/= setting, so the MM and MoM aren't part of setting and aren't specifically Spelljammer anyway, so the lore of those creatures is not specifically Spelljammer setting in any case. So yes, the 8 pages of setting material in the Adventures Guide and the 2(and I'm being generous) pages of monster lore that is actual setting in the Boo's Menagerie amounts to about .01 of what I would be using when it comes to Spelljammer. Not even close. If you think I have more, your campaigns must be really, really small. Let's take just 1 of the 14 captains. If he's that important to the campaign, I'd have to add the rest of the crew one by one, giving them names and a personality quirk. Create the officers in great detail. Modify the ship to make it unique, fleshing out each cabin, what goods the ship contains, their equipment, etc. Giving me "a captain" gives me very little of what I would need for just that one ship. The Rock is woefully incomplete. Let's take Large Luigi's tavern. It gives me no visual, so I have to create that in great detail. It gives me no menu, so I have to create that as well. It gives me no real personality for him, so I have to create that in detail. It gives me no staff for him, so I have to create them with their personalities and quirks. What I'm given is less than 5% of what I would need. So yes, having to create literally every space or astral location other than the Rock of Brak, detail all of the NPCs they give and that I make, plus detail out every location in the Rock of Bral since they are all substandard means that I'm doing 99.99% of the work on the setting. Stop tossing out Red Herrings. A gate is not a door. A throne is not a chair. A hill is not a mountain. A pond is not an ocean. A shrub is not a Giant Sequoia. A mackerel is not a shark. Having some similarity does not make something the same. Your Star Wars setting would suffer tremendously if you used those combat rules. I would not want to play in it. Your False Equivalence where you equate your personal Star Wars setting being bad for using horrible ship combat rules to all Star Wars settings being bad is..............................pretty bold. [/QUOTE]
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