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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8851849" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Saying something other than "nuh uh, 2e was bigger and better!" Why have you said the Rock isn't enough? Because 2e had more. Why isn't the lore from monsters part of the setting... I don't have a clue, you just claim it isn't with no explanation as to why. Why isn't Spelljammer 5e (all three books) a setting? Because according to you one of those books only has 8 pages and that isn't enough... despite the fact that I've pointed out you can have an entire setting in less than a paragraph, so why 8 pages cannot be a setting makes no sense.I'm confused, do settings only exist if $30 dollars are paid? What does money have to do with the existence of a setting? I've dealt with multiple settings that I've gotten for free, are they suddenly not settings? Also, who cares about the industry? Do settings only exist in that they perpetuate an industry? Does the setting of Ancient Mythological Japan not exist unless it is perpetuating the existence of the anime industry? These aren't arguments about setting. This is like claiming The Titanic is a terrible movie because you hate popcorn, and can they really get away with overcharging for butter like that?Like what? I can run it with like... five NPCs. Maybe. What is the 20 times information that you absolutely need to run the Rock of Bral?Sure, but you have to come up with a bunch of locations normally anyways, right? You don't only run the exact locations listed on a setting map, you make other locations. And it isn't hard to make locations like this. It is trivial.Please tell me more about how the Githyanki who live in the Astral Sea aren't part of Spelljammer, which takes place largely in the Astral Sea. Bet you could use that Githyankie city that is in the various books too. You know, the one that is a dead god (a thing mentioned in the spelljammer book) floating in the Astral sea? There is a reason that they included additional githyanki statblocks after all, probably has something to do with the Githyanki famously being a big part of the Astral Sea. Also, Mind Flayers are in Spelljammer, they even specifically call one out, and Mind Flayer lore has them as interdimensional travelers which controlled multiple worlds... ya know, kind of like how Spelljammer allows the Mind Flayer ships to travel between different dimensions and different worlds. How does this not match up again? And the Astral Dreadnaught, which is specifically in the Astral Sea, which is specifically where Spelljammer is taking place... This isn't even looking by the way, this is just off the top of my head. I'd bet the Thri-kreen lore fits too.If you need 1,000 pages for a setting, then you are likely constantly disappointed. Also, you are never going to be getting a single setting book that is 1,000 pages.Why? The players are most likely never going to talk to them and will just kill them. If they are going to talk to any of them, you will likely only need about 3 or 4 of them, likely the officers.They have the standard equipment for their statblocks, why are we assuming unique equipment for every crew member? You may want like two or three special items if you want the officers and the captain to be unique, but that's the work of 3 minutes. Why do you need to "flesh out" the cabins? They are already all labeled, and unless you feel the need to compulsively fill each one with multiple unique items, they don't need much fleshing out. The brig is a holding cell. Don't need more than that. The goods would be determined by the plot you came up with, so that's done in the writing of the adventure.It is a tavern. Why do you need great detail? Also, if you really need "great detail" there is a picture of it.Why? It's fun to have a menu, but not needed. Also, here's like... a dozen random tavern menu generators[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.google.com/search?q=dnd+tavern+menu+generator&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsY3KmZxqbJH3FeUZ5OkSHBQAJFETQ%3A1670472916453&ei=1GSRY8GNG8qbptQP8a2W4AY&oq=dnd+Tavern+menu&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQARgAMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yCAgAEBYQHhAKMgYIABAWEB46CggAEEcQ1gQQsAM6BwgAELADEEM6DAguEMgDELADEEMYAToPCC4Q1AIQyAMQsAMQQxgBOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgoIABCABBCxAxAKOg0IABCABBCHAhCxAxAUOgUIABCRAjoHCAAQsQMQQzoICAAQgAQQsQM6BQguEIAEOgoIABCABBCHAhAUOgUIABCGA0oECEEYAEoECEYYAFC0BFiwGmCeJ2gBcAF4AIAB6QKIAaMQkgEIMC4xMC4xLjGYAQCgAQHIAQzAAQHaAQQIARgI&sclient=gws-wiz-serp[/URL]Civic minded, encyclopedic knowledge, runs a bar called "The Happy Beholder" and is a beholder. Picture shows him as jolly and fat and says he is delighted to meet new patrons. How much more personality detail do you need to run this guy? It even gives you your favorite short-hand tool, alignment! You know, that thing you always say gives you everything you need to run an NPC.Who says he has staff? Maybe he doesn't.Hardly. Most of the stuff you claim to need is "highly detailed" NPCs and set dressing like menus.You are right, having a similarity doesn't make it the same. But it does make it analogous. Sort of how like, a country (Gondor) isn't a city (The Rock of Bral) but that didn't stop you from agreeing to comparing the two when you thought you could pull one over on me by puffing up a list of names. And please, tell me why a throne is not a chair, I'd love to hear this one. I'd also love to see why you suddenly clammed up about the "Pool of Secrets" or whatever it was called when I demonstrated that, in fact, I did know what it was.Huh, so... Star Wars as a setting wouldn't be bad, if I was using bad rules to run the setting. Only the version using the rules would suffer. It is, it is almost like... the rules... don't effect the setting. They effect the rules. So if these ship combat rules can't make Star Wars a bad setting, only instead making the game I am running using those rules suffer from bad rules.... then how do these rules make this setting bad? Because, ya know, if you change the rules and nothing else... then you've fixed the problem without touching a single piece of setting information.</blockquote>

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