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Is Spelljammer really that bad?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8852425" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Right, this song and dance. Should have known we'd end up here. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Holy hell!! Why don't you explain what you think I missed instead of accusing me of your favorite diatribe of bad traits. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You seriously need 305 locations for a campaign? I've been in multi-year campaigns that maybe dealt with more than 50. And that's a stretch. </p><p></p><p>What I'm actually arguing is that you likely only need like... 20 locations, maybe 30, and you were going to make up a few locations anyways. So, is it really that much of a burden to need to make 10 locations compared to 5? You keep gnashing your teeth over this like it is some massive burden, but it isn't. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wut? </p><p></p><p>So, you've literally been arguing with me in another thread that every setting (including Theros, for example) has the Negative Energy Plane because it is default. However, NOW you want to argue that the Astral Sea is different in normal DnD compared to Spelljammer because they are different settings? This is nonsense. Spelljammer takes place in the Astral Sea, so stuff about the Astral Sea would be true. You can't just speak out of both sides of your mouth like this. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Literally huh? What is this then? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>8 + 2 = 10</p><p></p><p>10 ÷ 0.01 = 1,000 </p><p></p><p>So concludes our lesson on basic algebra. And our proof that you are either literally nobody, or literally somebody DID say they needed 1,000 pages. Take your pick. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Normal crew? Oh, were you talking about them getting on someone else's ship? I thought you were talking about them as villains. It is expected the players will have their own spelljamming ship. Heck, if I wanted the players to have a ship with a captain and crew, I'd likely give them broad options and have them interview and hire the people. And of course, if I'm doing that, I'm not doing any different work than if they hired people in any other setting. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, you have no idea what is in the book. Actually, looking at the first ship I find, if you descend below the deck and go to the cabin on the left, you'd find the Speljammer's Quarters. So, the room of a mage who pilots a ship. That isn't exactly hard to describe, now is it? </p><p></p><p>Also, it would be locked unless they were the Spelljammer. </p><p></p><p>And while I get that you'd love if the book detailed the personal quarters of every single captain and spelljammer in a 20 ship list... I have no patience for that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't cut it, I split it to discuss each piece separately. Because "I need to describe the tavern" is different than "I need a menu for the tavern" Something you should know I did, since supposedly you read my post to make this remark. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, and? Do you realize that WoTC has not released a single setting book (Theros, Eberron, Ravnica, Ravenloft, SCAG) that bothered creating a menu for ANY of the taverns, inns or dives in them? I was simply saying if you don't want to make a menu yourself, there are tools (lots and lots of tools) for doing so, because they are never going to publish that in a setting book like this. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is he an important NPC? He's a minor NPC, he's just one of six or seven bartenders in a single city in the setting. He has no ties or ambitions for anything greater. </p><p></p><p>Also, you don't just have the alignment, do you? You have a lot of details here. And instead of replying about why it isn't enough to know everything I listed, you obfuscate by focusing on one aspect of what I listed and saying I twisted your words. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ever hear about this thing called magic? It is really amazing. </p><p></p><p>Also, cool thing about beholders, they have these eye rays. And each eye can do different things. Like, there is an eye ray for telekinesis, meaning that they can move things just by looking at them. So, combine that with some magic, like a little spell called prestidigitation, and... well, I'm sure I don't have to explain this to you. </p><p></p><p>After all, I said "maybe he doesn't have staff" not "and he can run the entire business by himself". The implication of not having staff would be that he has other things that he can do or access to run the place. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've sat on a chair made of rock before. So a rock can be a chair. And you seem to have no idea why a throne isn't a chair, except to state again that it is a throne. Thrones are subsets of chairs. Not all chairs are thrones, but all thrones are chairs. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, you decided to stop responding to my point because it wasn't about how you don't need 50+ locations to make a setting. Funny, doesn't seem like a red herring. Seems like a point that you hoped I just wouldn't pursue. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean this part? "Your False Equivalence where you equate your personal Star Wars setting being bad for using horrible ship combat rules to all Star Wars settings being bad" </p><p></p><p>My personal Star Wars, so the Star Wars I am using at the table with these rules, being bad, does not equate to all Star Wars Settings being bad.... but there is only one Star Wars setting right? Did Lucas make alternate universe Star Wars settings that I'm unaware of? Is every rule set for Star Wars actually a different setting each time? </p><p></p><p>So if the rules only affect a setting that uses those rules, then the rules don't make the setting good or bad, because the same setting can be used with different rules. This is really basic stuff here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8852425, member: 6801228"] Right, this song and dance. Should have known we'd end up here. Holy hell!! Why don't you explain what you think I missed instead of accusing me of your favorite diatribe of bad traits. You seriously need 305 locations for a campaign? I've been in multi-year campaigns that maybe dealt with more than 50. And that's a stretch. What I'm actually arguing is that you likely only need like... 20 locations, maybe 30, and you were going to make up a few locations anyways. So, is it really that much of a burden to need to make 10 locations compared to 5? You keep gnashing your teeth over this like it is some massive burden, but it isn't. Wut? So, you've literally been arguing with me in another thread that every setting (including Theros, for example) has the Negative Energy Plane because it is default. However, NOW you want to argue that the Astral Sea is different in normal DnD compared to Spelljammer because they are different settings? This is nonsense. Spelljammer takes place in the Astral Sea, so stuff about the Astral Sea would be true. You can't just speak out of both sides of your mouth like this. Literally huh? What is this then? 8 + 2 = 10 10 ÷ 0.01 = 1,000 So concludes our lesson on basic algebra. And our proof that you are either literally nobody, or literally somebody DID say they needed 1,000 pages. Take your pick. Normal crew? Oh, were you talking about them getting on someone else's ship? I thought you were talking about them as villains. It is expected the players will have their own spelljamming ship. Heck, if I wanted the players to have a ship with a captain and crew, I'd likely give them broad options and have them interview and hire the people. And of course, if I'm doing that, I'm not doing any different work than if they hired people in any other setting. Right, you have no idea what is in the book. Actually, looking at the first ship I find, if you descend below the deck and go to the cabin on the left, you'd find the Speljammer's Quarters. So, the room of a mage who pilots a ship. That isn't exactly hard to describe, now is it? Also, it would be locked unless they were the Spelljammer. And while I get that you'd love if the book detailed the personal quarters of every single captain and spelljammer in a 20 ship list... I have no patience for that. I didn't cut it, I split it to discuss each piece separately. Because "I need to describe the tavern" is different than "I need a menu for the tavern" Something you should know I did, since supposedly you read my post to make this remark. Okay, and? Do you realize that WoTC has not released a single setting book (Theros, Eberron, Ravnica, Ravenloft, SCAG) that bothered creating a menu for ANY of the taverns, inns or dives in them? I was simply saying if you don't want to make a menu yourself, there are tools (lots and lots of tools) for doing so, because they are never going to publish that in a setting book like this. Why is he an important NPC? He's a minor NPC, he's just one of six or seven bartenders in a single city in the setting. He has no ties or ambitions for anything greater. Also, you don't just have the alignment, do you? You have a lot of details here. And instead of replying about why it isn't enough to know everything I listed, you obfuscate by focusing on one aspect of what I listed and saying I twisted your words. Ever hear about this thing called magic? It is really amazing. Also, cool thing about beholders, they have these eye rays. And each eye can do different things. Like, there is an eye ray for telekinesis, meaning that they can move things just by looking at them. So, combine that with some magic, like a little spell called prestidigitation, and... well, I'm sure I don't have to explain this to you. After all, I said "maybe he doesn't have staff" not "and he can run the entire business by himself". The implication of not having staff would be that he has other things that he can do or access to run the place. I've sat on a chair made of rock before. So a rock can be a chair. And you seem to have no idea why a throne isn't a chair, except to state again that it is a throne. Thrones are subsets of chairs. Not all chairs are thrones, but all thrones are chairs. So, you decided to stop responding to my point because it wasn't about how you don't need 50+ locations to make a setting. Funny, doesn't seem like a red herring. Seems like a point that you hoped I just wouldn't pursue. You mean this part? "Your False Equivalence where you equate your personal Star Wars setting being bad for using horrible ship combat rules to all Star Wars settings being bad" My personal Star Wars, so the Star Wars I am using at the table with these rules, being bad, does not equate to all Star Wars Settings being bad.... but there is only one Star Wars setting right? Did Lucas make alternate universe Star Wars settings that I'm unaware of? Is every rule set for Star Wars actually a different setting each time? So if the rules only affect a setting that uses those rules, then the rules don't make the setting good or bad, because the same setting can be used with different rules. This is really basic stuff here. [/QUOTE]
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