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Is Spring Attack overpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 5511943" data-attributes="member: 20741"><p>No, it doesn't. It doesn't say that ANYWHERE within the errata. That's <strong><u>you</u></strong>r interpretation of the effect of the rule, but I think your interpretation is <strong><u>clearly wrong</u></strong>.</p><p></p><p>Here are the text of the feats, after errata [which appears in square brackets]:</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: orange">Spring Attack (Combat)</span></strong></p><p>You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react.</p><p><strong>Prerequisites: </strong>Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.</p><p><strong>Benefit: </strong>[<em>As a full-round action</em>] you can move up to your speed and <strong><u><span style="color: yellow">make a single melee attack</span></u></strong> without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn. </p><p><strong>Normal: </strong>You cannot move before and after an attack.</p><p></p><p>Now, that doesn't mean that a spring attack itself is a full round action (in and of itself). It means that you can Move - make a single melee attack - and move again. That's the full-round-action at issue. so the question is, is a vital strike a "single melee attack"?</p><p></p><p>Gee. Let's look at the text of Vital Strike:</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: orange">Vital Strike (Combat)</span></strong></p><p><strong><u><span style="color: yellow">You make a single attack</span></u></strong> that deals significantly more damage than normal.</p><p><strong>Prerequisites:</strong> Base attack bonus +6. Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. [Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as f laming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.]</p><p></p><p>There is nothing in Vital Strike that says that it is a "standard" action which is special and more expansive than what it states. It states it is a single melee attack. It makes reference to the "attack action", A single melee attack is what you are supposed to be able to do with Spring Attack. It's in yellow and clear as a bell. When you make a single melee attack - yes that's a standard action. But that is not, in and of itself, excluded by the text of Spring Attack.</p><p></p><p>So after you misinterpret the effect of a rule, you then dismiss what one of the two main developers says about <u>your </u>interpretation and call their interpretation a "house rule?" Suggesting your own, less nuanced approach, is more authoritative?</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: orange">o_0</span></strong></p><p></p><p>If you want to pretend the comments from two main rules guys for Paizo aren't "official" and are instead just "house rules"? Uhm... I think you need to step back a little and reconsider whose view might be more authoritative on this subject. Because as between your view and James Jacobs? He's got the credentials and you don't.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, you might just reconsider your position on this and admit the possibility that your interpretation is plainly and simply flat-out <strong><u>wrong</u></strong>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 5511943, member: 20741"] No, it doesn't. It doesn't say that ANYWHERE within the errata. That's [B][U]you[/U][/B]r interpretation of the effect of the rule, but I think your interpretation is [B][U]clearly wrong[/U][/B]. Here are the text of the feats, after errata [which appears in square brackets]: [B][COLOR=orange]Spring Attack (Combat)[/COLOR][/B] You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react. [B]Prerequisites: [/B]Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4. [B]Benefit: [/B][[I]As a full-round action[/I]] you can move up to your speed and [B][U][COLOR=yellow]make a single melee attack[/COLOR][/U][/B] without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn. [B]Normal: [/B]You cannot move before and after an attack. Now, that doesn't mean that a spring attack itself is a full round action (in and of itself). It means that you can Move - make a single melee attack - and move again. That's the full-round-action at issue. so the question is, is a vital strike a "single melee attack"? Gee. Let's look at the text of Vital Strike: [B][COLOR=orange]Vital Strike (Combat)[/COLOR] [U][COLOR=yellow]You make a single attack[/COLOR][/U][/B] that deals significantly more damage than normal. [B]Prerequisites:[/B] Base attack bonus +6. Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. [Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as f laming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.] There is nothing in Vital Strike that says that it is a "standard" action which is special and more expansive than what it states. It states it is a single melee attack. It makes reference to the "attack action", A single melee attack is what you are supposed to be able to do with Spring Attack. It's in yellow and clear as a bell. When you make a single melee attack - yes that's a standard action. But that is not, in and of itself, excluded by the text of Spring Attack. So after you misinterpret the effect of a rule, you then dismiss what one of the two main developers says about [U]your [/U]interpretation and call their interpretation a "house rule?" Suggesting your own, less nuanced approach, is more authoritative? [B][COLOR=orange]o_0[/COLOR][/B] If you want to pretend the comments from two main rules guys for Paizo aren't "official" and are instead just "house rules"? Uhm... I think you need to step back a little and reconsider whose view might be more authoritative on this subject. Because as between your view and James Jacobs? He's got the credentials and you don't. Alternatively, you might just reconsider your position on this and admit the possibility that your interpretation is plainly and simply flat-out [B][U]wrong[/U][/B]. [/QUOTE]
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