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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6775559" data-attributes="member: 5143">This is definitely a corner case that the rules don't cover well.  But a strict reading of the rules, there would be "some signs" that the person was there.  Maybe the wind would be blocked and therefore trees or plants wouldn't blow in the breeze nearby them.  Maybe it's a void in the dust on the bench.  Maybe they can't stay perfectly still and when they shift slightly in their seat it makes noise either from their clothes rustling or their weapons or equipment banging into each other.  A Hide check is an attempt to stay quiet and unseen, so it is an attempt to stand in a spot that leaves the smallest trace of you while moving as little as possible and possibly holding on to your scabbard so it doesn't bang against your leg, and so on.The beauty of this is, exactly as Mike Mearls has stated, that 5e was designed assuming a DM who can look at the rules, understand the spirit of them and rule on the corner cases that aren't well covered by the rules.  How strict you want to be with that is up to you.  I've definitely allowed invisible creatures to stand perfectly still and (provided they were invisible before the PCs entered the room and the PCs didn't know they were there) not given the PCs a chance to notice them.  I've forced invisible creatures to make hide checks if they move even an inch, however.  I won't let creatures do that in combat, though.  They are breathing heavy, some people are swinging weapons around and so on.  If an invisible creature "stands still", everyone still knows where they are unless they spend an action making a hide check.But for people, we already have a rule covering how hard it is to detect them.  It's a Stealth check vs the Passive Perception of everyone around them.  Sure, you can certainly set a DC and just say "That guy is standing in the darkness, a little difficult to make out but he isn't really hiding.  Anyone with 10 Passive Perception or higher spots him."  Essentially, you are just using the rules for spotting an hidden object.  But the point of the stealth rules is to use them to determine if someone is noticed or not?  Why invent another tool for the same thing?  I've certainly given people a "free" Hide check when I felt they were being stealthy when someone first saw them...but that's out of combat when the actions you take don't matter.The default assumption is that when you are "in combat", people are constantly spinning around, swinging weapons, looking for openings, keeping their ears open.  A new enemy could appear at any time in any location so you pay closer attention.  The adrenaline kicks in and makes you better at noticing subtle details.  Which is why I tend to treat stealth in and out of combat a little differently.The problem is that the case of the OP was a kind of...in between period between combat and non-combat.  The enemy had left the room, they weren't specifically "in combat", but combat was going on nearby.  So, the player wanted to be quiet while following them.  By the rules that means taking the Hide action then moving after the guy while staying out of sight the whole time so the enemy didn't spot him as soon as he entered the new room.It really depends on the goal the PC was after.  If he wanted to just "try to be quiet" while entering the next room...it might be argued that isn't quite the same as Hiding.  Maybe making a Stealth check with disadvantage might be a decent compromise.  But in this case, I would probably rule that given the PC has no cover or anything once he has entered the next room and he wasn't truly "Hiding" that anyone who happened to be looking that way saw him immediately but that anyone who was "distracted" might not see him similarly to the way the Hiding rules already work.  But, other than the disadvantage, that is giving them ALL the benefits of the Hide action without having to take the Hide action.  Which immediately raises my "powergaming" alarm.  When an option looks too good to be true, it probably shouldn't be allowed.  Maybe applying a speed penalty, like half speed would work...but half speed when allowing them to Dash every round is...exactly the same as taking an action and moving full speed.  So, we might as well just use the rules as written.</blockquote>

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