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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is Stealth the new Grapple?
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<blockquote data-quote="the_redbeard" data-source="post: 4397621" data-attributes="member: 22644"><p>Please actually read the rules before passing judgements.</p><p></p><p>The rules for combat advantage, on page 280:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First, note that you need ONLY ONE of those conditions to achieve combat advantage.</p><p></p><p>Second, note the page numbers:</p><p></p><p><strong>Unaware of you (page 188)</strong>. Page 188 is where stealth is.</p><p></p><p><strong>Unable to see the attacker (page 281)</strong>. Page 281 is where Total Cover/Concealment is indicated.</p><p></p><p>Finally, look at what the <a href="http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396" target="_blank">FAQ </a>(which is official), actually has to say on the matter:</p><p>"16. What are the benefits of being hidden?</p><p></p><p> There are several benefits of being hidden from an enemy - you have combat advantage against them and they will have a more difficult time targeting you because you are unseen. Page 281 of the Player's Handbook explains the rules for targeting unseen creatures. "</p><p></p><p>Look at the success status for Stealth, from page 188:</p><p>Success: You avoid notice, unheard and hidden from</p><p>view. If you later attack or shout, you’re no longer</p><p>hidden.</p><p></p><p>Stealth = hidden. Hidden = unseen. Do I really need to convince you that "unseen = can't be seen"?</p><p></p><p>Sure, stealth can be used to walk quietly, to pick a lock quietly, etc. Those uses of stealth wouldn't make you hidden. Sometimes stealth is used to be unheard, sometimes it can be used to simply not be noticed (such as in a crowd.) But if you have cover or concealment, you can use stealth to hide, gaining total concealment (ie, can't be seen), forcing the enemy to use the Targeting What You Can't See Rules (unequivocally per the FAQ), and gaining you combat advantage (explicitly on page 280.)</p><p></p><p>Stealth in 4th edition is useful after combat has been started. Forget your 3.5 bias against stealth.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="the_redbeard, post: 4397621, member: 22644"] Please actually read the rules before passing judgements. The rules for combat advantage, on page 280: First, note that you need ONLY ONE of those conditions to achieve combat advantage. Second, note the page numbers: [b]Unaware of you (page 188)[/b]. Page 188 is where stealth is. [b]Unable to see the attacker (page 281)[/b]. Page 281 is where Total Cover/Concealment is indicated. Finally, look at what the [url=http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396]FAQ [/url](which is official), actually has to say on the matter: "16. What are the benefits of being hidden? There are several benefits of being hidden from an enemy - you have combat advantage against them and they will have a more difficult time targeting you because you are unseen. Page 281 of the Player's Handbook explains the rules for targeting unseen creatures. " Look at the success status for Stealth, from page 188: Success: You avoid notice, unheard and hidden from view. If you later attack or shout, you’re no longer hidden. Stealth = hidden. Hidden = unseen. Do I really need to convince you that "unseen = can't be seen"? Sure, stealth can be used to walk quietly, to pick a lock quietly, etc. Those uses of stealth wouldn't make you hidden. Sometimes stealth is used to be unheard, sometimes it can be used to simply not be noticed (such as in a crowd.) But if you have cover or concealment, you can use stealth to hide, gaining total concealment (ie, can't be seen), forcing the enemy to use the Targeting What You Can't See Rules (unequivocally per the FAQ), and gaining you combat advantage (explicitly on page 280.) Stealth in 4th edition is useful after combat has been started. Forget your 3.5 bias against stealth. [/QUOTE]
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Is Stealth the new Grapple?
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