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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the_redbeard" data-source="post: 4397651" data-attributes="member: 22644">Disagreements by people that claim things like "hidden from view" is different from "hidden" or "can't be seen" and make assumptions without actually reading the rules.Rules as written, yes you could do this with ranged attacks (allies do not provide cover from melee attacks.)  Combat Advantage merely means your target can't actively dodge your attack because your target can't see you as you aim.This is easy to counter.  On their turn, your target can simply move to change their line of sight and get a clear attack on you.I do admit I look forward to a FAQ clarifying the issue.  I wouldn't begrudge a DM who didn't play it by the book.  But there it is.The Free Action Complaint:"Part of Whatever action you are trying to perform stealthily"A free action typically doesn't hide you - it just means your free action was performed stealthily.  Ie, nobody saw or heard you pick your nose, whisper to your friend, or drop an item (typical free actions.)Not every stealth action makes you unseen.  If you merely want to do something quietly (say, pick a lock) you use the stealth skill.  "Part of whatever action you are performing stealthily" does not mean you are always unseen with every action.  Sometimes it only means unheard, sometimes it only means avoid notice.But for your Pillar Example:Behind a tree: you have cover.  Not concealment.  Not the same thing.If you successfully steatlh, hiding behind the tree with a move or minor action: then you are hidden from view, unseen, able to attack with combat advantage and requiring that attacks against you are at -5 (can't be seen is the definition of Total concealment.)When you attack: you lose concealment.Then you must make an action to hide again.  Note what I said about free actions above.You must make an action to move yourself back behind the pillar, to take advantage of the cover to stealth.   Sounds like a move or a minor action.Here you are deliberately being obtuse or not reading the rules.Yes, it does say  on page 188:Opposed Check: Stealth vs. Perception (see thetable for modifiers to your check). If there are multipleobservers, your Stealth check is opposed byeach observer’s Perception check.But if you were so bold as to look up what Perception says on page 186:Perception: No action required—either you noticesomething or you don’t. Your DM usually uses yourpassive Perception check result.As poster Innuit says, think of your passive Perception as a defense against stealth.You make one stealth roll.  You compare it against the highest passive perception skill of the enemies that might see you.  That one enemy, if intelligent, can use a free action to alert the rest.One roll.One target number.No. Big. Deal.Now - in their turn, your enemies can make active checks.  I admit there is an apparent inconsistency here.On page 186:Perception: No action required—either you noticesomething or you don’t. Your DM usually uses yourpassive Perception check result. If you want to use theskill actively, you need to take a standard action orspend 1 minute listening or searching, depending onthe task.Which would seem to tell you that you need to take a standard action for an active check.However, as the book says, Specific overrules general.  We have a more specific rule:Page 281, Targeting What You Can't See:Make a Perception Check: On your turn, you can makean active Perception check as a minor action...So it is only a minor action for an active perception check against an unseen (ie, hidden from view, stealthed) target.Please cite the magic "unaware", change location, etc.,  as a requirement to stealth.Yes, you need to do an action. "Part of whatever action you are performing stealthily".  No you can't simply attack stealthily:  attacks break stealth.See above for free action.If your attack was your last action in your turn, you need to wait for the next round to hide.Please reread combat advantage.  It specifically sites page 188 (stealth) as one of the ways to gain CA.Stealth has many uses besides hiding.  It is moving silently.  It is (aside from specific uses of sleight of hand) performing actions without being noticed.It could even be mixing in a crowd without the guards looking for you noticing you.It is not a Jedi Mind Trick.  The people you are hiding from don't forget that you are out there somewhere.  If you are hiding behind a piece of solitary cover (like a tree), they likely will know exactly where you are.  They just can see you.4th edition skills are broad, and don't do one simple thing (ie, Move Silent).Arcana is detecting magic, spell identification, ritual use, magical lore, etc.  Stealth is also many things.It is a free action to communicate.  If you're facing intelligent enemies, why wouldn't they?Customer service is not official.  They can be helpful at times, but their answers don't have any kind of quality assurance process.  The errata and the FAQ are official.  I suggest you <a href="http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396" target="_blank"> check it out.</a>Again, check the FAQ.But from the PHB:Stealth, Success: You avoid notice, unheard and hidden fromview. You want to pick your nose in the throne room without upsetting the King?  That would be stealth, but it wouldn't make you unseen.You want to hide behind a pillar so you can jump out and attack?  That would be stealth, but hiding behind the pillar would make you unseen unless your enemy had x-ray vision or tremor sense.The people that can't make the leap between "hidden from view" and "can't be seen" need professional help.</blockquote>

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