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Is stoneskin underpowered?
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<blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 6714775" data-attributes="member: 413"><p>I certainly didn't mean to pick an argument about concentration in a general sense. I like the concentration mechanic. I like it primarily because it limits the number of spells in play at any given time. I can't speak for other tables, but at mine, spells are disrupted all the time. Especially on NPCs.</p><p></p><p>That said, I don't think I buy the two primary arguments I am seeing that stoneskin is fine as it is. </p><p></p><p>Argument 1 seems to be "It is just different from previous editions and people need to accept that because in previous editions it was too powerful or used for a different purpose." Many spells changed between editions. I have no problem with those changes. But the question that has be be asked, is the spell balanced for THIS edition. I don't see that it is when compared to similar spells.</p><p></p><p>The second argument is that concentration isn't a big deal as a restriction because it is easy to make concentration saves. No...it is easy to make concentration saves IF you spend significant resources to make them easy (War Caster and Resistance feats and ability score points on concentration...those things aren't free. Asking the tank to stand in front of you is only marginally effective and is still a cost...maybe the tank would prefer to be standing in front of the healer...). </p><p></p><p>Remember....I'm looking at this as a DM in the context of NPCs. I don't know about other DMs, but I don't have a significant portion of my NPC casters built to make concentration saves. That would get old. Nor should I have to do that in order to make THIS spell useful, when I have no problem with NPCs using other interesting concentration spells. IMXP, when a villain casts a concentration spell the party takes notice and focuses on breaking the caster's concentration. Stoneskin? meh....maybe if it was used in conjunction with another concentration spell...but then that means having two casters. Again...seems like having to jump through hoops to make this spell useful.</p><p></p><p>Besides that, having to make saves is not the only cost associated with concentration....the other (and possibly more significant) cost is that you can only have one concentration spell going at a time. If you have a caster built to cast concentration spells, you still want them to have some oomph because you still only get one. I think just about every other concentration spell would be preferable to this one, at least in the general sense.</p><p></p><p>So...we have a spell that is a 4th level slot, takes up your one concentration slot, costs 100gp a pop and only effects a very narrow range of damage (non magical bludgeoning, slashing and piercing). Compare it to other spells of the same nature and power level and it seems to me it doesn't come close. Protection from Energy is pretty much an identical spell, is only 3rd level and doesn't cost any wealth.</p><p></p><p>Someone said earlier the monetary cost stops PCs from auto stacking it on fighters before a fight. So what if they do? They just spent a precious 4th level slot and that is one less concentration buff the party can have doing something else.</p><p></p><p>Again...I think my preference would be to make it give invulnerability or perhaps resistance to all damage until 10hp/slot level has been absorbed then the spell ends. That way it's more of a sure thing, it is more unique and worth that 100gp cost. It can still be concentration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Uller, post: 6714775, member: 413"] I certainly didn't mean to pick an argument about concentration in a general sense. I like the concentration mechanic. I like it primarily because it limits the number of spells in play at any given time. I can't speak for other tables, but at mine, spells are disrupted all the time. Especially on NPCs. That said, I don't think I buy the two primary arguments I am seeing that stoneskin is fine as it is. Argument 1 seems to be "It is just different from previous editions and people need to accept that because in previous editions it was too powerful or used for a different purpose." Many spells changed between editions. I have no problem with those changes. But the question that has be be asked, is the spell balanced for THIS edition. I don't see that it is when compared to similar spells. The second argument is that concentration isn't a big deal as a restriction because it is easy to make concentration saves. No...it is easy to make concentration saves IF you spend significant resources to make them easy (War Caster and Resistance feats and ability score points on concentration...those things aren't free. Asking the tank to stand in front of you is only marginally effective and is still a cost...maybe the tank would prefer to be standing in front of the healer...). Remember....I'm looking at this as a DM in the context of NPCs. I don't know about other DMs, but I don't have a significant portion of my NPC casters built to make concentration saves. That would get old. Nor should I have to do that in order to make THIS spell useful, when I have no problem with NPCs using other interesting concentration spells. IMXP, when a villain casts a concentration spell the party takes notice and focuses on breaking the caster's concentration. Stoneskin? meh....maybe if it was used in conjunction with another concentration spell...but then that means having two casters. Again...seems like having to jump through hoops to make this spell useful. Besides that, having to make saves is not the only cost associated with concentration....the other (and possibly more significant) cost is that you can only have one concentration spell going at a time. If you have a caster built to cast concentration spells, you still want them to have some oomph because you still only get one. I think just about every other concentration spell would be preferable to this one, at least in the general sense. So...we have a spell that is a 4th level slot, takes up your one concentration slot, costs 100gp a pop and only effects a very narrow range of damage (non magical bludgeoning, slashing and piercing). Compare it to other spells of the same nature and power level and it seems to me it doesn't come close. Protection from Energy is pretty much an identical spell, is only 3rd level and doesn't cost any wealth. Someone said earlier the monetary cost stops PCs from auto stacking it on fighters before a fight. So what if they do? They just spent a precious 4th level slot and that is one less concentration buff the party can have doing something else. Again...I think my preference would be to make it give invulnerability or perhaps resistance to all damage until 10hp/slot level has been absorbed then the spell ends. That way it's more of a sure thing, it is more unique and worth that 100gp cost. It can still be concentration. [/QUOTE]
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