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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is summoning creatures to spring traps an evil act?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7408569" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>No. Or rather, at least not in my campaign.</p><p></p><p>Summon spells make use of spirits who are pretty much always on standby looking for some excuse to meddle in the natural world. They willing come to fight on behalf of magic wielders in order to further their ends. It's basically like calling a temporary staffing agency and leaving out a magical calling card. Anyone that answers the card would already have decided to be perfectly willing to run across a trap filled floor, knowing that they can't sustain any lasting harm from doing so, and the ends of Good, Evil, or whatever would be advanced thereby.</p><p></p><p>There in is the catch in my campaign. If you choose to summon up say a group of Celestial Hounds, they'll balk at say being used to tear a part say an orphanage or kill an innocent old woman that represents no threat. Conversely, a group of infernal creatures will balk at being used to advance some obviously good end or perform some obviously good deed, such as saving a good temple from destruction. And, because (among other things) evil summoned creatures will generally only do evil deeds, and good summoned creatures will generally only do good deeds, it's Evil or Good to summon up creatures of the corresponding sort.</p><p></p><p>Q: Where does the creature go when it dies?</p><p>A: It doesn't die. It relinquishes its temporary physical form and its spirit goes back to wherever it came from. It was in a sense never really here in the first place, any more than someone who engages in astral projection is truly on the astral plane.</p><p></p><p>Q: Is there a celestial or infernal waiting room somewhere full of creatures waiting to get summoned? </p><p>A: More or less, yes. Actually many such rooms. The spirits that get summoned are typically those frustrated by their inability to effect the material world, and who are anxiously waiting for an opportunity to do so.</p><p></p><p>Q: Is taking a turn in that room like community service for extraplanar creatures?</p><p>A: Well, define 'community'. If we're talking a chaotic creature, then "No", there is certainly no community compelling them to serve. But in the case of lawful creatures, it could very well be they get delegated the task for some reason.</p><p></p><p>Q: But then why would the creature take time to reform?</p><p>A: Because it hurts. Getting even your temporary body banished violently from the material plane hurts, and it takes a day for the spirit in question to collect itself (quite literally). This doesn't mean that the spirit necessarily minds - it afterall volunteered for the job. It recognized the pain as a possibility and considered the gain to be more important. In some cases, the spirit might be effectively masochistic anyway - even a Lawful Good spirit might see the pain incurred as some sort of proof that it was engaged in more than the usual devotion to its duty. In the case of Chaotic Evil spirit, to the extent that it is capable of 'enjoying' anything, it might relish the pain or at least the inability of the pain to harm it and the opportunity it had to spread the pain around.</p><p></p><p>Q: Does that mean I can request Broseidon the Celestial Dolphin every time I cast summon monster?</p><p>A: Yes. If you know Broseidon's name or if Broseidon decides that you are a particularly trust worthy customer and worth working with, then this is a very likely result. However, doing so multiple times in the same day requires Broseidon to have returned at the end of the spell duration peacefully. If Broseidon was mangled by a trap, that might not convince Broseidon he doesn't want to come back (afterall, if you are engaged in some worthy endeavor, he'd rather he gets mangled than you), but it would mean he couldn't come back in the same day.</p><p></p><p>Q: And how do you live with yourself knowing that you’re putting all those cute little critters in harm’s way?</p><p>A: If these were a bunch of innocent little creatures violently ripped from somewhere, then yes that would definitely bother me. But there is nothing innocent about a summoned creature. They also have their own agenda.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7408569, member: 4937"] No. Or rather, at least not in my campaign. Summon spells make use of spirits who are pretty much always on standby looking for some excuse to meddle in the natural world. They willing come to fight on behalf of magic wielders in order to further their ends. It's basically like calling a temporary staffing agency and leaving out a magical calling card. Anyone that answers the card would already have decided to be perfectly willing to run across a trap filled floor, knowing that they can't sustain any lasting harm from doing so, and the ends of Good, Evil, or whatever would be advanced thereby. There in is the catch in my campaign. If you choose to summon up say a group of Celestial Hounds, they'll balk at say being used to tear a part say an orphanage or kill an innocent old woman that represents no threat. Conversely, a group of infernal creatures will balk at being used to advance some obviously good end or perform some obviously good deed, such as saving a good temple from destruction. And, because (among other things) evil summoned creatures will generally only do evil deeds, and good summoned creatures will generally only do good deeds, it's Evil or Good to summon up creatures of the corresponding sort. Q: Where does the creature go when it dies? A: It doesn't die. It relinquishes its temporary physical form and its spirit goes back to wherever it came from. It was in a sense never really here in the first place, any more than someone who engages in astral projection is truly on the astral plane. Q: Is there a celestial or infernal waiting room somewhere full of creatures waiting to get summoned? A: More or less, yes. Actually many such rooms. The spirits that get summoned are typically those frustrated by their inability to effect the material world, and who are anxiously waiting for an opportunity to do so. Q: Is taking a turn in that room like community service for extraplanar creatures? A: Well, define 'community'. If we're talking a chaotic creature, then "No", there is certainly no community compelling them to serve. But in the case of lawful creatures, it could very well be they get delegated the task for some reason. Q: But then why would the creature take time to reform? A: Because it hurts. Getting even your temporary body banished violently from the material plane hurts, and it takes a day for the spirit in question to collect itself (quite literally). This doesn't mean that the spirit necessarily minds - it afterall volunteered for the job. It recognized the pain as a possibility and considered the gain to be more important. In some cases, the spirit might be effectively masochistic anyway - even a Lawful Good spirit might see the pain incurred as some sort of proof that it was engaged in more than the usual devotion to its duty. In the case of Chaotic Evil spirit, to the extent that it is capable of 'enjoying' anything, it might relish the pain or at least the inability of the pain to harm it and the opportunity it had to spread the pain around. Q: Does that mean I can request Broseidon the Celestial Dolphin every time I cast summon monster? A: Yes. If you know Broseidon's name or if Broseidon decides that you are a particularly trust worthy customer and worth working with, then this is a very likely result. However, doing so multiple times in the same day requires Broseidon to have returned at the end of the spell duration peacefully. If Broseidon was mangled by a trap, that might not convince Broseidon he doesn't want to come back (afterall, if you are engaged in some worthy endeavor, he'd rather he gets mangled than you), but it would mean he couldn't come back in the same day. Q: And how do you live with yourself knowing that you’re putting all those cute little critters in harm’s way? A: If these were a bunch of innocent little creatures violently ripped from somewhere, then yes that would definitely bother me. But there is nothing innocent about a summoned creature. They also have their own agenda. [/QUOTE]
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Is summoning creatures to spring traps an evil act?
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