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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xereq" data-source="post: 2811244" data-attributes="member: 37136">could you define "bardly" for me, i can't seem to find it in any dictionary. what is your ideal of an iconic bard? from your previos thread i gathered that it warps minds and twists psyche of allies and enemies, if thats all you want play an enchanter! the bard is a jack of all trades and a master of one, diplomacy, not hte skill necicerily but the tactic. An issue of dragon magzine listed "free xp" on the cover. it did not clarify that issue but later the editor said that it was refering to the fact that you get full xp for diplomaticly handling a encounter as you do for killing everything, minus the cost of spells canst hitpoints wasted, healing to be used and magic item charges expended.Imagine talking an antipalidin out of the service of his dark god, converting him back to paladinhood and forever changing the powerstructure of your campiegn's churches, a sorcer or wizard would have to cast geas and he could just shrug that off somehow, the bard just buffs charisma and diplomacy, makes one roll and the final boss is nuetralized, without character death or a cunning plan, just social skills. how can you call that underpowered? Plus most powerfull creatures and npcs you face will be easily influenced. you can leave the ogres guarding the gate scratching the heads trying to remeber whether or not the lich actually ordered them to let anyone claiming to be an interrior decorater into the dungeon with bluff. you can sell a troll alchemist's fire as mouthwash claiming to beonly concerned about his health, he's pretty much always going to fail his sense motive checks. Social skills are power only limited by your creativity, which could make the bard a the most broken class of them all. And by the way, including NPCs and accounting for a bards abiliy to use social skills is not  DM catering the same way that including monsters is not DM catering to a fighter.as far as the bard sucking goes,I think i just proved you wrong</blockquote>

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