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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xereq" data-source="post: 2811294" data-attributes="member: 37136">people would not challenge him if he did not ask them tohe has challenged all players who read his thread to prove him wrong, he says the bard needs to be "fixed" without giving a clear reason whyhe does not attempt to define what is an iconic bard but tells people that they are wrong and that thier idea of the iconic bard is not "bardly" enough, without saying why or what "bardly" really means, if he would difine his idea of an iconic bard I would be more than happy to help him come up with some mechanics for it, but as it is he seems to want a nonspellcasting enchantment specialist, which is by the way a contridiction.fire beetle, please define for us what your iconic bard looks like and come up with a better adjective, we might be able to come up with a new core class here. But right now you seem to be chasing off al the creative people who usually come up with new feats and monsters and mechanics with your zealous quest to make the bard more "bardly"the bard can easily be adapted into a new class, for example:The Pirate:take away the music,d8 hit dice,fighter's base attack bonus,leadership at 5th levelbonus feats every four levels and your enemies will always forget one thing,you're Captian Jack Sparrow</blockquote>