Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is the Burning Wheel "how to play" advice useful for D&D?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6099771" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Depends on what those core play assumptions are. If the core play assumption is, "Players have a challenge agenda, and the gameplay supports tactical combat where player decision making heavy outcome on success.", then the answer is "lots". But if the core play assumption is left unsaid, the answer can be "none". Certain gaming styles - namely those more derived from theater games than table top wargames - depend very little on rules as RPG players typically understand them and as such can be played with pretty much any level of mechanical crunch. Those styles actually depend more on preparation methods, and/or player expectations.</p><p></p><p>Note also there are certain types of wargames, usually ones played on a strategic level, that also have very little mechanical crunch, but run on scripts and judge arbitration. If you play a game derived from that, say simulating an intrigue heavy political thriller, you may or may not need mechanical crunch depending on table expectations.</p><p></p><p>And, as I've played 8 hour D&D sessions with ZERO dice rolls before, full on Thespian theater games doing setting and character exploration.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The examples of play, modules you publish, and expectations of play that you set will probably do more to determine how your game plays (and indeed, even if it is played) than all the mechanics you produce. That said, certain experiences will be best captured if there is some concrete connection between play and mechanics. However, just because the mechanic informs a certain activity, doesn't mean it will actually create a particular experience of play. If you are wanting to create a game where you want players spending a lot of time acting in character and engaging in witty banter and gets in touch with thier characters feelings, it doesn't necessarily follow that intricate rules for resolving social conflicts and spending a lot time book keeping changes in the players internal mental map will create that experience of play. Instead you might find the metagame of selecting choices from the rules is at some tables used to fullly or nearly fully substitute for the now no longer strictly necessary in character role play. </p><p></p><p>Likewise, if the agenda of play you want to support is Fantasy, where the player experiences being a particular character, it doesn't necessarily follow that providing a huge number of customizable options that tie to ever conceivable sort of character or background imaginable will end up supporting that experience at every table. Some tables will instead take the same rules and use them to support Conflict agendas where they create highly optimized characters with no attachment to who the character is only what the character can do, and then happily play an antagonistic game where they try to beat thier GM with their power gaming. </p><p></p><p>The real issue IMO opinion is creating a game were you are aware of the multiple agendas and can support one without breaking the other. And if you know you can't support an agenda, then you better be real upfront about it (and you better not expect to sell a lot of copies of your game either).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6099771, member: 4937"] Depends on what those core play assumptions are. If the core play assumption is, "Players have a challenge agenda, and the gameplay supports tactical combat where player decision making heavy outcome on success.", then the answer is "lots". But if the core play assumption is left unsaid, the answer can be "none". Certain gaming styles - namely those more derived from theater games than table top wargames - depend very little on rules as RPG players typically understand them and as such can be played with pretty much any level of mechanical crunch. Those styles actually depend more on preparation methods, and/or player expectations. Note also there are certain types of wargames, usually ones played on a strategic level, that also have very little mechanical crunch, but run on scripts and judge arbitration. If you play a game derived from that, say simulating an intrigue heavy political thriller, you may or may not need mechanical crunch depending on table expectations. And, as I've played 8 hour D&D sessions with ZERO dice rolls before, full on Thespian theater games doing setting and character exploration. The examples of play, modules you publish, and expectations of play that you set will probably do more to determine how your game plays (and indeed, even if it is played) than all the mechanics you produce. That said, certain experiences will be best captured if there is some concrete connection between play and mechanics. However, just because the mechanic informs a certain activity, doesn't mean it will actually create a particular experience of play. If you are wanting to create a game where you want players spending a lot of time acting in character and engaging in witty banter and gets in touch with thier characters feelings, it doesn't necessarily follow that intricate rules for resolving social conflicts and spending a lot time book keeping changes in the players internal mental map will create that experience of play. Instead you might find the metagame of selecting choices from the rules is at some tables used to fullly or nearly fully substitute for the now no longer strictly necessary in character role play. Likewise, if the agenda of play you want to support is Fantasy, where the player experiences being a particular character, it doesn't necessarily follow that providing a huge number of customizable options that tie to ever conceivable sort of character or background imaginable will end up supporting that experience at every table. Some tables will instead take the same rules and use them to support Conflict agendas where they create highly optimized characters with no attachment to who the character is only what the character can do, and then happily play an antagonistic game where they try to beat thier GM with their power gaming. The real issue IMO opinion is creating a game were you are aware of the multiple agendas and can support one without breaking the other. And if you know you can't support an agenda, then you better be real upfront about it (and you better not expect to sell a lot of copies of your game either). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is the Burning Wheel "how to play" advice useful for D&D?
Top