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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6099958" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, they are straightfoward qualifiers.&nbsp; All imply variation and exceptions or the possibility of variations and exceptions.&nbsp; Since you say you don't mean them as qualifiers, then I don't know what you mean, nor am I completely sure you know what you mean.&nbsp; Explain to me how treating a word that is a qualifer as a qualifier is 'willful contortion' of what you wrote.&nbsp;I RP with my (young) elementary age girls.&nbsp; I think they would be utterly bored and would reject a game of them as adventurers taking on risk.&nbsp; They would not take that as an assumption of what it meant to play.&nbsp; Monsters would not be seen as fun, least of all combat with them.&nbsp; But I think they would be utterly facinated by a game where they played shopkeepers, and got to make sales and resolve conflicts with customers using profession skills, craft skills, social mechanics, appraisal and so forth.&nbsp; Is it still D&amp;D?&nbsp; We are using all the same rules?&nbsp; In fact, most editions explictly bless in one way or the other me awarding XP for achieving story awards, so we could even advance them up to 20th level epic shopkeepers selling hats to storm giants and balancing a top ladders and never once monkeying around with the combat rules.&nbsp;&nbsp; If it isn't D&amp;D what is it?&nbsp; It's all the same rules?&nbsp; What has changed?But that's just wrong.&nbsp; The D&amp;D world as personified by the DM doesn't want to kill you.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is not my goal of play to kill the characters in any sort of normal game of D&amp;D.&nbsp; I have abundant goals in D&amp;D, but in so far as those goals impinge on this topic, it is precisely that the 'D&amp;D world wants to challenge the players'.&nbsp;&nbsp; Killing characters is trivially easy.&nbsp; Blue bolt of lighting, take 400 damage, you are dead.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6099958, member: 4937"] Yes, they are straightfoward qualifiers. All imply variation and exceptions or the possibility of variations and exceptions. Since you say you don't mean them as qualifiers, then I don't know what you mean, nor am I completely sure you know what you mean. Explain to me how treating a word that is a qualifer as a qualifier is 'willful contortion' of what you wrote. I RP with my (young) elementary age girls. I think they would be utterly bored and would reject a game of them as adventurers taking on risk. They would not take that as an assumption of what it meant to play. Monsters would not be seen as fun, least of all combat with them. But I think they would be utterly facinated by a game where they played shopkeepers, and got to make sales and resolve conflicts with customers using profession skills, craft skills, social mechanics, appraisal and so forth. Is it still D&D? We are using all the same rules? In fact, most editions explictly bless in one way or the other me awarding XP for achieving story awards, so we could even advance them up to 20th level epic shopkeepers selling hats to storm giants and balancing a top ladders and never once monkeying around with the combat rules. If it isn't D&D what is it? It's all the same rules? What has changed? But that's just wrong. The D&D world as personified by the DM doesn't want to kill you. It is not my goal of play to kill the characters in any sort of normal game of D&D. I have abundant goals in D&D, but in so far as those goals impinge on this topic, it is precisely that the 'D&D world wants to challenge the players'. Killing characters is trivially easy. Blue bolt of lighting, take 400 damage, you are dead. [/QUOTE]

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