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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6100030" data-attributes="member: 6688858">I've never  secretly moved PCs up or down levels, but the dwarf and gnome do have a  "determine approximate depth underground" ability that could stand to  see some more use. I would either have the elevator make a slight  whirring noise or have some sort of visual clue that they're on a  different level.I would say I am a notch less hardcore than the style of play that comes  across in the 1e books. Generally, a trap/trick that the players could  conceivably anticipate based on physical/cultural knowledge outside of  the game is better than a trap/trick that only exists as a trope inside  the game that someone playing for the first time would have no chance of  understanding, like earseekers or random contact poison. But I don't  have a huge theoretical problem with the latter. Sometimes it's OK to  use a thing where there's no substitute for having played the game and  seen it before. It's a cheaper thrill but coming up with good, unique  traps is hard work, sometimes you've got to water down that orange drink  a little bit.My five room dungeon  <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334670-5-Chamber-Dungeons&p=6091120&viewfull=1#post6091120" target="_blank">here</a>  is a pretty good example of the kind of tricksy stuff I like. Those are  basically the five most interesting rooms taken from a much larger  dungeon strung together, the rest of the dungeon being mostly random  monsters/treasure and a few basic traps like tripwires and pit traps, so  in reality that much creativity is good for about 10 hours of play. I  used a map from the donjon generator.I think the texts could be  better on this issue...but at the same time I think this is the point  where perception is going to vary based on the experiences and  subjectivities of the real people around the table, so there's only so  much that advice text can do, you just have to develop a good feel for  it. Just like how a narrativist game text can try to help you develop a  knack for scene-framing but can't give you a rule determing exactly what  scene to frame at a particular point in-game, I think, following the  symmetry between gamism and narrativism as the two metagame agendas.I've heard that the advice for trap design is really good in Adventurer Conqueror King but I've never read it.</blockquote>

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