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Is the Champion weak compared to Battle Master?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6386270" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>I don't know that I disagree, but I've got this anecdotal counterpoint: Jack of All Trades. </p><p></p><p>Remarkable Athlete is about half of Jack of All Trades. </p><p></p><p>Bounded Accuracy makes applying your Proficiency Bonus kind of a big deal -- it actually increases your total possible result, which means you're not depending as much on raw chance to succeed at a check. +1-+3 is significant in 5e. Especially when it applies to 90% of any checks you're going to make while exploring the environment. And ESPECIALLY when it applies to ability scores that you're already going to have as very high. </p><p></p><p>This is one of the Champion's non-combat enhancements, making them great explorers, they are <em>actually more likely to succeed</em> than other characters at any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check, even if they haven't bothered to train the skill. It also improves their social skills by association -- you can afford to have a higher Wis, Cha, or Int if all of your other ability checks are going to give you a bonus on them anyway. </p><p></p><p>I just hit 2nd level as a Bard in my first 5e game, and when I started finding out what Jack of All Trades does functionally -- basically, at this point +1 to <em>every active die roll I make that isn't an attack</em>...in a Bounded Accuracy system where the DC's aren't on a treadmill....Remarkable Athlete started looking not half bad. It's not quite THAT good, but dismissing it as a narrow, small bonus (as I originally did) doesn't take into account the in-play context very well. +2-+3 to <em>half of your active, non-attack die rolls</em> ain't nothin'. ("Active" in this context indicating "not saving throws")</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure that it's enough at 7th level, but seeing what Jack of All Trades does and the reaction it got at my table, I would certainly consider Remarkable Athlete a nice boon for any physically-oriented character I wanted to play. Not a reason to take the subclass perhaps, but definitely worthwhile.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6386270, member: 2067"] I don't know that I disagree, but I've got this anecdotal counterpoint: Jack of All Trades. Remarkable Athlete is about half of Jack of All Trades. Bounded Accuracy makes applying your Proficiency Bonus kind of a big deal -- it actually increases your total possible result, which means you're not depending as much on raw chance to succeed at a check. +1-+3 is significant in 5e. Especially when it applies to 90% of any checks you're going to make while exploring the environment. And ESPECIALLY when it applies to ability scores that you're already going to have as very high. This is one of the Champion's non-combat enhancements, making them great explorers, they are [I]actually more likely to succeed[/I] than other characters at any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check, even if they haven't bothered to train the skill. It also improves their social skills by association -- you can afford to have a higher Wis, Cha, or Int if all of your other ability checks are going to give you a bonus on them anyway. I just hit 2nd level as a Bard in my first 5e game, and when I started finding out what Jack of All Trades does functionally -- basically, at this point +1 to [I]every active die roll I make that isn't an attack[/I]...in a Bounded Accuracy system where the DC's aren't on a treadmill....Remarkable Athlete started looking not half bad. It's not quite THAT good, but dismissing it as a narrow, small bonus (as I originally did) doesn't take into account the in-play context very well. +2-+3 to [I]half of your active, non-attack die rolls[/I] ain't nothin'. ("Active" in this context indicating "not saving throws") I'm not sure that it's enough at 7th level, but seeing what Jack of All Trades does and the reaction it got at my table, I would certainly consider Remarkable Athlete a nice boon for any physically-oriented character I wanted to play. Not a reason to take the subclass perhaps, but definitely worthwhile. [/QUOTE]
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