Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is the Cleric really one of the ‘core four’ anymore?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 6503340" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>The Cleric is a militant priest -- Knights Templar or Knight Hospitaler. At least some of these orders took vows to avoid shedding blood. In true rules-lawyer fashion, creatively interpreted these vows in a way that allowed them to use bludgeoning weapons, thus the restriction on clerical weapons in earlier editions. In most ways, the cleric is priest first, but a priest that prays softly and carries a big stick. They are ordained, and have the rights and privileges of such. This interpretation screams for an NPC priest class, though, that's better at casting but not as good at fighting.</p><p></p><p>The Paladin is the "knight in shining armor". They're really a Fighter, but they are so pure of heart and full of faith that "the powers that be" bless them in a number of ways. If you're familiar with WoD or Ars Magica, a Paladin is just a Fighter with True Faith. Anything the Fighter gets that the Paladin doesn't is either for game balance or because the Fighter is more interested in winning than keeping his hands clean.</p><p></p><p>Druids are pagan priests that are, compared to the Cleric and Paladin, rural and wild. They could be animists (which is how I use them), but really make more sense as followers of the Old Gods. Most of the Druid abilities are to differentiate them from the Cleric. They get Reincarnate, rather than Raise Dead. They can't draw on the power of God to turn undead, but are resistant to scary things of the woods and can change shape.</p><p></p><p>The further away from the pseudo-Medeval, pseudo-Christian settings, the less sense the divisions make. That's why I tend to use Druids as animists and Clerics as god-followers. With the 5E green Paladin, it could be an exemplar of either.</p><p></p><p>I like that much better than making the Ranger the Druid-Paladin. The original niche of the Ranger was a Fighter who was focused on skirmishing and protecting the borders of civilization. They were "part" of civilization, if apart from it, and not barbarians or pagans. They learned spells because they were exposed to hidden lore and their survival depended on making some use of it -- which is why they had wizard spells in 1E. Personally, I always saw the Ranger as the Mage-Paladin, not the Druid-Paladin, but I digress.</p><p></p><p>Answer to the original question: The Cleric is tied to an implied setting that is no longer used. We may need something in that role, but the Cleric is a poor fit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 6503340, member: 5100"] The Cleric is a militant priest -- Knights Templar or Knight Hospitaler. At least some of these orders took vows to avoid shedding blood. In true rules-lawyer fashion, creatively interpreted these vows in a way that allowed them to use bludgeoning weapons, thus the restriction on clerical weapons in earlier editions. In most ways, the cleric is priest first, but a priest that prays softly and carries a big stick. They are ordained, and have the rights and privileges of such. This interpretation screams for an NPC priest class, though, that's better at casting but not as good at fighting. The Paladin is the "knight in shining armor". They're really a Fighter, but they are so pure of heart and full of faith that "the powers that be" bless them in a number of ways. If you're familiar with WoD or Ars Magica, a Paladin is just a Fighter with True Faith. Anything the Fighter gets that the Paladin doesn't is either for game balance or because the Fighter is more interested in winning than keeping his hands clean. Druids are pagan priests that are, compared to the Cleric and Paladin, rural and wild. They could be animists (which is how I use them), but really make more sense as followers of the Old Gods. Most of the Druid abilities are to differentiate them from the Cleric. They get Reincarnate, rather than Raise Dead. They can't draw on the power of God to turn undead, but are resistant to scary things of the woods and can change shape. The further away from the pseudo-Medeval, pseudo-Christian settings, the less sense the divisions make. That's why I tend to use Druids as animists and Clerics as god-followers. With the 5E green Paladin, it could be an exemplar of either. I like that much better than making the Ranger the Druid-Paladin. The original niche of the Ranger was a Fighter who was focused on skirmishing and protecting the borders of civilization. They were "part" of civilization, if apart from it, and not barbarians or pagans. They learned spells because they were exposed to hidden lore and their survival depended on making some use of it -- which is why they had wizard spells in 1E. Personally, I always saw the Ranger as the Mage-Paladin, not the Druid-Paladin, but I digress. Answer to the original question: The Cleric is tied to an implied setting that is no longer used. We may need something in that role, but the Cleric is a poor fit. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is the Cleric really one of the ‘core four’ anymore?
Top