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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ashockney" data-source="post: 448003" data-attributes="member: 1363">A good start...Ok, I'll call that a good start.Here's my best base assumption, there's a couple of ways of getting there, but let's take this road:Half-orc Barb, Starting Str 20Book of Strength +5Stat Bonuses to Str from Lvl +5"Epic" Strength Item +12Greater Rage +6Total Str = 48 = +1920 Lvls Barb (or whatever) = +2020 Lvls Epic Classes = +10"Epic" Weapon = +10WF & "Epic" Weapon Focus = +2Total = 61Ok, check my math here...88-61 = oh, yeah, way more than 20.  Which means you must supercede this to even have a 10% chance of hitting on your first strike.  I like where Victim is going with the "other" bonus types.  That's a good thought.  Getting at least +5's in these categories, if not +10's seems well within reach by 40th level.  So, other bonuses include insight (true strike), luck (divine favor), and morale (prayer) bonuses.  I don't know of any more "competence" bonuses besides the ones listed above.Now, to attempt to dissect the "epic" versions of the above.Bards can inspire greatness to the tune of +4 "competence" bonus to attacks.Bards can also inspire courage to the tune of +2 "morale" bonus to attacks.Bards can inspire excellence for a +4 "competence" bonus to an attribute (like Strength) for a +2 to attacks.I saw no sign of epic feats that would allow you to enhance the effects of true strike, prayer, or divine favor.  (They all require a "variable" numeric effect to be manipulated.)There was not an epic "seed" that granted a luck or morale bonus.Therefore, going by the standards laid out in the PH (which I don't have in front of me...) I believe that the best options are:True Strike (Insight) +20 to one attack roll (I've described that this DEFINITELY gets you there, but probably only on one attack per round.Prayer: +2 Morale Bonus (someone check me on that)Divine Favor: +5 Luck Bonus (someone check me...)New grand total: +69 (Carryover +62, Prayer: +2, Divine Favor: +5).  Ok, assuming there's no defensive spells or magic items on the force dragon...(yeah right, like he won't have a +6 item of Cha and +6 item of Dex which is another +6 to his AC!!!)...this new total actually gives a FULLY twinked out barb a 10% chance of hitting with his primary attack (granted, an auto-hit with true strike), and if he's lucky enough to know an epic bard, he can bump that up by as much as +10, giving him a +79 to hit the AC of 88, which is a 50% chance, for a fully twinked out barb, against a force dragon with no magic items, and no defensive spells cast...Does anyone else see the challenge in this?  What am I missing?</blockquote>

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