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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 2278726" data-attributes="member: 2629">The problems with illusionists as PCs in 3.5 are easy to identify.&nbsp; We’ve had a good discussion of them so far:&nbsp; &nbsp; 1.)&nbsp; They don’t do much, if any, real damage directly.&nbsp; &nbsp; 2.)&nbsp; Their effects are generally ‘save to negate’.&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.)&nbsp; It is hard to ‘set up’ a situation where an enemy falling for an illusion will hurt itself unless you know the terrain in advance (which dungeon delving PCs rarely do) and your enemy doesn’t (which is rarely the case).&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.)&nbsp; True seeing negates most illusions and is far too common at high levels.&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.)&nbsp; There are few enough illusion spells that specializing often is not worth the cost.&nbsp; &nbsp; 6.)&nbsp; Many true illusions have a duration of concentration, meaning that the wizard is stuck with little he can do while the illusion is in effect.&nbsp; &nbsp; This effectively increases the cost of the spell to many rounds of casting time.&nbsp; &nbsp; 7.)&nbsp; If your foe *knows* you made an illusion, he doesn’t need to save at all.&nbsp; &nbsp; The advantages are also easy to identify: &nbsp; &nbsp; 1.)&nbsp;&nbsp; Illusions are the most versatile type of spells in the game.&nbsp; &nbsp; 2.)&nbsp; A failed save often negates an opponent entirely.&nbsp; &nbsp; 3.)&nbsp; Many of the high damage dealing foes (giants, etc...)&nbsp; have low will saves as it is often a bad save for burly types and most burly types have lower wisdom than dexterity or constitution.&nbsp; &nbsp; 4.)&nbsp; Illusions have a duration of concentration, meaning that they can last for very long periods of time.&nbsp; &nbsp; 5.) *You do not get a save versus an illusion (figment, etc ...) until you interact with it or study it*.&nbsp; As such, an illusion can do its job with no save available for your enemy.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The 5th advantage in my list of the advantages is often overlooked by players and DMs.&nbsp; This is the key rule, in my mind, to be successful with illusions.&nbsp; For instance, if I create an illusion of a ledge roughly 10 feet down the side of a cliff with a glowing sword balanced precariously on the edge of it, an enemy that sees the illusion does not get a save because he has seen the illusion.&nbsp; He doe not get a save because he plans to leap down and grab the sword.&nbsp; He only gets a save when he either leaps down (and passes through the ledge and falls to his death) *or* he says he is stopping to study the sword.&nbsp; Actually, the save is a bit of a waste in this instance, as passing through the invisible ledge means that he automatically knows it is an illusion.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 2278726, member: 2629"] The problems with illusionists as PCs in 3.5 are easy to identify. We’ve had a good discussion of them so far: 1.) They don’t do much, if any, real damage directly. 2.) Their effects are generally ‘save to negate’. 3.) It is hard to ‘set up’ a situation where an enemy falling for an illusion will hurt itself unless you know the terrain in advance (which dungeon delving PCs rarely do) and your enemy doesn’t (which is rarely the case). 4.) True seeing negates most illusions and is far too common at high levels. 5.) There are few enough illusion spells that specializing often is not worth the cost. 6.) Many true illusions have a duration of concentration, meaning that the wizard is stuck with little he can do while the illusion is in effect. This effectively increases the cost of the spell to many rounds of casting time. 7.) If your foe *knows* you made an illusion, he doesn’t need to save at all. The advantages are also easy to identify: 1.) Illusions are the most versatile type of spells in the game. 2.) A failed save often negates an opponent entirely. 3.) Many of the high damage dealing foes (giants, etc...) have low will saves as it is often a bad save for burly types and most burly types have lower wisdom than dexterity or constitution. 4.) Illusions have a duration of concentration, meaning that they can last for very long periods of time. 5.) *You do not get a save versus an illusion (figment, etc ...) until you interact with it or study it*. As such, an illusion can do its job with no save available for your enemy. The 5th advantage in my list of the advantages is often overlooked by players and DMs. This is the key rule, in my mind, to be successful with illusions. For instance, if I create an illusion of a ledge roughly 10 feet down the side of a cliff with a glowing sword balanced precariously on the edge of it, an enemy that sees the illusion does not get a save because he has seen the illusion. He doe not get a save because he plans to leap down and grab the sword. He only gets a save when he either leaps down (and passes through the ledge and falls to his death) *or* he says he is stopping to study the sword. Actually, the save is a bit of a waste in this instance, as passing through the invisible ledge means that he automatically knows it is an illusion. [/QUOTE]

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