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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jago" data-source="post: 6908381" data-attributes="member: 6855130">Then by your hilarity and my bookishness, we will attack the Sorcerer until gets a UA too.But this is part of the issue. The Wizard has a Tradition for every single Magical School in D&D.The Sorcerer started with 2 Origins and then gained a 3rd after they gutted it. The answer cannot be to just Homebrew because that's Rule 0 Arguments: just because you, yourself, can fix it, is not an excuse for it to be broken in the first placeMaking more Magic is less impressive when you're just regurgitating the same 5 spells over and over, though. That's not indicative of a class that's pure magic, THAT feels like a Wizard to me: rote and repetitive.A thief cannot be charming, swindling, flying-by-the-seat-of-their-pants and more, dare I say, Roguish in their manner? The idea of thieves that get by on sheer luck or flash and pizzaz is just as iconic as the methodical burglar, and I feel fits the idea of D&D more. You also list Eight 1st Level spells to make this Concept work. You'd need to be A Level 7 Sorcerer to have all of those, if you take nothing but 1st Level Spells, so have fun staying behind the power curve that most definitely exists. Again, if I can't make my concept work by Level 3 when everyone else is coming into their Archetype (4 Spells Known), that's a problem. So let's go with Disguise Self, Fog Cloud, Feather Fall, and Sleep. ... No, I'm not getting magical thief from this because I have no other spells that can really help solidify this. And yes, the Arcane Trickster works bestfor this, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't work for a Sorcerer. And again, a Wizard knows 10 Spells by this point, if they haven't found any scrolls or books to add to their own spellbook. Meaning a Wizard can do this better.As for where your Magical Origin comes from, may I direct you to the Elder Scrolls where Nocturnal is a literal Goddess of Thieves. Most settings have something similar, and again, things like the Plane of Shadow would be appropriate. Or even just like a connection to the very fabric of Luck or Fate or ... something.1.) Wizards get a Conjurer and Abjurer School. Meaning Wizards are always going to be superior at this.2. You're basically saying 'Be a Wizard if you want to follow a theme because their archetypes play to that'. Again, the lack of support is not justifiable by comparison to the Wizard. The answer cannot always be "Create an Archetype". I can play a Paladin as a dozen different things with only 3 Archetypes, and yet the Sorcerer seems shoehorned into a few, select roles and they fail at at least half of them.3.) Go play 7th Sea, learn some Porte Magic, and watch as the idea of tearing open the very fabric of something like The Weave is very Sorcerer in application. Again, these are people Made Of Magic, I cannot stress enough how their casting should be LEAPS AND BOUNDS AHEAD of any other Arcane Spellcaster, at a cost of some sort. Metamagic is supposed to fulfill that ideal, I suppose, but the lack of spell support just makes that fail on every level.It does! The Warlock is a better freaking Sorcerer than the Sorcerer!What is happening!!!</blockquote>

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