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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rjdafoe" data-source="post: 4998462" data-attributes="member: 54591">I am not talking about the entire party. A cleric, can do that every round, at will (as long as they hit). Again, the game is not played in a vacuum. Almost every round, in my games, there is a bonus or penalty that is applied somewhere, and it is more than +2 at 1st level. That are also such things as other defenses in game as well. Not many creatures have all their defenses higher than a normal party can hit well. Your also not accounting for powers (at will even) that leaders can take away points from their defenses, every roound if required (as long as they hit)</blockquote>