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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 4999678" data-attributes="member: 67338">I would say one side claims math with out doing all of it, well the other doesn't like being told they are wrong by people not looking at the whole picture...again...you claim  a 4 pt diff between attack/def of pc vs monsters over 30 levels...no one says "That isn't true" we can all see it... BUT you have yet to prove that is a problem...and again we have the impass at 1st level you have X to hit Y to be hit Z damage 1x per encounter A damage 1x per day and B damage at willat 30th level you have X+4 to hit, Y-4 to be hit zx2 damage 4 times an encounter (if not more) Ax2 or 3 damage 4+x per day and Bx2 damage at will pluse 7 "tricks" you have picked up from level 2+, 16 feats... and bunches of magic items (with protperties, and at wills and encounters and dailies) at least some of witch have synergies with each other makeing them more powerful then the sum of there parts, AND you have 2 new 'classes' worth of features...when you look at all the increase and say "well it doesn't matter" then YOUR MATH IS WRONG!!!when someone can compair the avrage 1st level character Vs a 1st level monster and then that same character advanced to 30th level Vs a 30 th level monster taking into account EVERYTHING  gained in those 29 levels not just the + to hit and + to defs I will give it a chance, until then you are just claiming math you haven't shown...</blockquote>