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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nifft" data-source="post: 5000108" data-attributes="member: 6562">Well, Expertise is what the last few posts have been about, but the whole argument goes like this:1. WotC: Hey guys! We did a ton of work to make sure 4e plays just like the sweet spot of 3e, all the way from level 1 through level 30! We did a lot of math! We even hired some math dudes who can model combat outcomes using reverse binomial distributions!2. Fans: Hooray!3. WotC: *publishes PHB1 and MM1*4. Fans: Hoor-- wait a second! The math is somewhat wonky! This guy ran the numbers on monster defenses, and this other guy ran the math for expected loot, and when you put the numbers side by side, they don't match! It's 15% easier to hit level-appropriate foes at 1st than it is at 30th!5. Fans (a): Maybe that's because your PCs have more options at high level, and more magic item uses, and your Leaders give higher bonuses and this is okay because blah blah blah ...6. Fans (b): No way, monsters inflict more & harsher conditions, and monsters have a VERY easy time hitting your lowest defense (which you will have because you can only raise two stats) and this is bad because blah blah blah...7. WotC: Oh hey guys, buy this new book! *publishes PHB2*8. Fans (a) and (b): Well I'll be damned. They were wrong about having the math all worked out, and their fix is lame.9. Fans (c): So my dual-wielding sword/dagger Paladin/Warlock has to take Expertise four times? That sucks.10. Fans (a) and (b): Shut up, Fans (c). Everyone else hates Paladins.11. WotC: Hey guys, in PHB3 there's a better Expertise! We put it in for the Monk, because otherwise he'd have to take Expertise twice!12. Fans (c): ... like my Paladin, you mean?13. WotC: Shut up, Fans (c). We hate Paladins too. *publishes Divine Power* Wait, actually we love Paladins.- - -The important part there is 8. Pretty much everyone who was aware of the mathematical disconnect -- be they group (a) or group (b) -- agrees that the fix is poor.To get people to understand that the fix is poor, I spend a lot of time convincing them that the problem exists in the first place. The Expertise line of feats are evidence that even WotC sees the problem, and they are a bad fix for reasons I've already gone into. The new racial powers are more evidence of WotC's awareness.Once we accept that the problem in 4e's math is real, we can discuss fixes -- and we can intelligently discuss why the Expertise feats are a good or bad idea. (IMHO they're bad, but you knew that already.)Cheers, -- N</blockquote>

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