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Is the original Tomb of Horrors a well-designed adventure module?
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<blockquote data-quote="merelycompetent" data-source="post: 2912284" data-attributes="member: 33830"><p>Not to put too fine a point on it, but the module itself says that it will take several sessions of playing to complete. It even recommends camping near the entrance to replenish spells and hitpoints (page 2, under Notes for the Dungeon Master, 2nd para). I won't go further about the wandering monsters, so I don't spoil the fun for others, other than to say that we took precautions against wandering monsters like any experienced (and paranoid) party would.</p><p></p><p>So in answer to your question: YES, you go through the entire dungeon at a crawl, using every trick in your arsenal, built up over playing your character for 10-14 levels, plus coming up with some new ones. You are assumed to be *very* familiar with your character and the ins and outs of his abilities and spells. You spend game *days*, usually outside the tomb recovering from a trap or trick we'd triggered, and multiple sessions of play time, searching the place carefully. We spent a weekend, 2 days, playing about 6 hours a day, going through it. If you rush in, you die. This is spelled out in the module's DM notes. As for detecting the secret doors, it was easy:</p><p></p><p>[spoiler]We used several Knock spells: "Knock (Alteration) Level: 2, Range: 6", Duration: Special, Area of Effect: 10 square feet/level, Components: V, Casting Time: 1 segment, Saving Throw: None.</p><p></p><p>"Explanation/Description: The knock spell will open stuck or held or wizard-locked doors. It will also open barred or otherwise locked doors. <strong>It causes secret doors to open.</strong> The knock spell will also open locked or trick opening boxes or chests. It will loose shackles or chains as well. If it used to open a wizard-locked door, the knock does not remove the former spell, but it simply suspends its functioning for 1 turn. In all other cases, the knock will permanently open locks or welds - although the former could be closed and locked again thereafter. It will not raise bars or similar impediments ( such as a portcullis). The spell will perform two functions, but if a door is locked, barred, and held, opening it will require two knock spells. (1E PHB, p70)"</p><p></p><p>Note that by the spell description, the secret door only needs to be in the area of effect, and if it is only shut, or shut and locked, it will swing open. We had our thief listening carefully in the AoE for any clicks or scrapes indicating locks or latches coming undone for secret/hidden doors that had multiple latches or locks. Worked for all those areas where we failed the d6 rolls. On the occasions where this trick didn't work, a couple of divination spells and (when we got impatient) a Rock to Mud did the trick. We had secret door detection down to about 5 minutes of real-time.[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>As for the no-save poisons, we went in prepped with Slow Poison (2nd lvl Cleric spell, duration 1 hour/lvl, for a total of 10-14 hours of poison semi-immunity). This gave us ample time to use Neutralize Poison and avoid the bad effects of the sleep gas the first time I played through.</p><p></p><p>Yes, there are some outright 1E rules violations (auto-hitting traps that do minimal damage, critters that always attack first, etc), but none of them are insurmountable or deadly by themselves -- unless the PCs have rushed things and not spent time recovering and recouping.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Puzzles and traps we couldn't solve: We circumvented them with passwall, stone shape, Rock to Mud, or the like.</p><p></p><p>From 1E PHB, p81: "By means of this spell, the magic-user can form an existing piece of stone into a shape which will suit his or her purposes. For example, a stone weapon can be made, a special trapdoor fashioned, or an idol sculpted. By the same token, it would allow the spell caster to <strong>reshape a stone door, perhaps, so as to escape imprisonment</strong>, providing the volume of stone involved was within the limits of the area of effect. While stone coffers can thus be formed, <strong>secret doors made</strong>, etc., the fineness of detail is not great..."</p><p></p><p>While it uses about 3x as many words as it needs to, that pretty much tells me the caster can use stone shape to open holes in things. A strict reading would say that it can make a door or lid (closed), it amounts to the same thing - can't get past the magic portal thing? Stone shape a door next to it. We used this to bypass several of the traps in the tomb.</p><p></p><p>The boring pits: Once we found an area with pits and similar traps, our wizard laid down a Wall of Stone on the floor and we simply walked across it (still checking for traps in case we missed a tripwire our RBDM set 1' above the original floor, or in case the entire area was one giant pressure plate). This did result in some backtracking on occasion, and some digging through a Wall of Stone, but that's why we brought along a Dwarven cleric with a magic warhammer, and lots of iron spikes.</p><p></p><p>For the time period when the module came out, these were the tricks of the adventuring trade. If your preferences ran towards puzzles, then it was fun. If your preferences didn't, then you weren't going to enjoy it. The module author(s) recognized this even back then - it's printed in all caps in the module's DM notes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Lost Tomb of Martek was also a lot of fun, but for us it lacked the real risk of PC death. Don't get me wrong - we enjoyed the heck out of LToM (so much so that most of us players went on to DM it for more players, when our gaming club started growing). It was more 1E rules compliant (as I recall, IDHTBIFOM), so that made it *much* easier to run, IMO. We cheered more for ToH when we beat a trick/trap, and gnashed our teeth harder when we sprung one. LToM also had more of a hack and slash feel to it. Descent is also a classic module that we enjoyed immensely. But it is a logistics puzzle for a special ops military campaign against the Drow. ToH is a puzzle fest leading up to a confrontation with a BBEG. They're very different types of adventures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="merelycompetent, post: 2912284, member: 33830"] Not to put too fine a point on it, but the module itself says that it will take several sessions of playing to complete. It even recommends camping near the entrance to replenish spells and hitpoints (page 2, under Notes for the Dungeon Master, 2nd para). I won't go further about the wandering monsters, so I don't spoil the fun for others, other than to say that we took precautions against wandering monsters like any experienced (and paranoid) party would. So in answer to your question: YES, you go through the entire dungeon at a crawl, using every trick in your arsenal, built up over playing your character for 10-14 levels, plus coming up with some new ones. You are assumed to be *very* familiar with your character and the ins and outs of his abilities and spells. You spend game *days*, usually outside the tomb recovering from a trap or trick we'd triggered, and multiple sessions of play time, searching the place carefully. We spent a weekend, 2 days, playing about 6 hours a day, going through it. If you rush in, you die. This is spelled out in the module's DM notes. As for detecting the secret doors, it was easy: [spoiler]We used several Knock spells: "Knock (Alteration) Level: 2, Range: 6", Duration: Special, Area of Effect: 10 square feet/level, Components: V, Casting Time: 1 segment, Saving Throw: None. "Explanation/Description: The knock spell will open stuck or held or wizard-locked doors. It will also open barred or otherwise locked doors. [B]It causes secret doors to open.[/B] The knock spell will also open locked or trick opening boxes or chests. It will loose shackles or chains as well. If it used to open a wizard-locked door, the knock does not remove the former spell, but it simply suspends its functioning for 1 turn. In all other cases, the knock will permanently open locks or welds - although the former could be closed and locked again thereafter. It will not raise bars or similar impediments ( such as a portcullis). The spell will perform two functions, but if a door is locked, barred, and held, opening it will require two knock spells. (1E PHB, p70)" Note that by the spell description, the secret door only needs to be in the area of effect, and if it is only shut, or shut and locked, it will swing open. We had our thief listening carefully in the AoE for any clicks or scrapes indicating locks or latches coming undone for secret/hidden doors that had multiple latches or locks. Worked for all those areas where we failed the d6 rolls. On the occasions where this trick didn't work, a couple of divination spells and (when we got impatient) a Rock to Mud did the trick. We had secret door detection down to about 5 minutes of real-time.[/spoiler] As for the no-save poisons, we went in prepped with Slow Poison (2nd lvl Cleric spell, duration 1 hour/lvl, for a total of 10-14 hours of poison semi-immunity). This gave us ample time to use Neutralize Poison and avoid the bad effects of the sleep gas the first time I played through. Yes, there are some outright 1E rules violations (auto-hitting traps that do minimal damage, critters that always attack first, etc), but none of them are insurmountable or deadly by themselves -- unless the PCs have rushed things and not spent time recovering and recouping. Puzzles and traps we couldn't solve: We circumvented them with passwall, stone shape, Rock to Mud, or the like. From 1E PHB, p81: "By means of this spell, the magic-user can form an existing piece of stone into a shape which will suit his or her purposes. For example, a stone weapon can be made, a special trapdoor fashioned, or an idol sculpted. By the same token, it would allow the spell caster to [B]reshape a stone door, perhaps, so as to escape imprisonment[/B], providing the volume of stone involved was within the limits of the area of effect. While stone coffers can thus be formed, [B]secret doors made[/B], etc., the fineness of detail is not great..." While it uses about 3x as many words as it needs to, that pretty much tells me the caster can use stone shape to open holes in things. A strict reading would say that it can make a door or lid (closed), it amounts to the same thing - can't get past the magic portal thing? Stone shape a door next to it. We used this to bypass several of the traps in the tomb. The boring pits: Once we found an area with pits and similar traps, our wizard laid down a Wall of Stone on the floor and we simply walked across it (still checking for traps in case we missed a tripwire our RBDM set 1' above the original floor, or in case the entire area was one giant pressure plate). This did result in some backtracking on occasion, and some digging through a Wall of Stone, but that's why we brought along a Dwarven cleric with a magic warhammer, and lots of iron spikes. For the time period when the module came out, these were the tricks of the adventuring trade. If your preferences ran towards puzzles, then it was fun. If your preferences didn't, then you weren't going to enjoy it. The module author(s) recognized this even back then - it's printed in all caps in the module's DM notes. Lost Tomb of Martek was also a lot of fun, but for us it lacked the real risk of PC death. Don't get me wrong - we enjoyed the heck out of LToM (so much so that most of us players went on to DM it for more players, when our gaming club started growing). It was more 1E rules compliant (as I recall, IDHTBIFOM), so that made it *much* easier to run, IMO. We cheered more for ToH when we beat a trick/trap, and gnashed our teeth harder when we sprung one. LToM also had more of a hack and slash feel to it. Descent is also a classic module that we enjoyed immensely. But it is a logistics puzzle for a special ops military campaign against the Drow. ToH is a puzzle fest leading up to a confrontation with a BBEG. They're very different types of adventures. [/QUOTE]
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