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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anubis the Doomseer" data-source="post: 1027578" data-attributes="member: 12455">Originally posted by Ridley's Cohort In other words, he is weak.Not really.  I find the wizards, sorceror and fighter ho-hum in terms of class powers (more spells, more feats, big whoop).A stylish grabbag of defenses generally does not stack up against a few choice offensive tactics when you spend most of your time on the battle line.  Paladins do not spend their lives on the battle line, at least not in the way fighters do.  A paladin is not a rank-and-file soldier but moreso, they are champions.  They deal with the major threats - the sort of things that the fighters can't.Likewise the Paladin looks great on paper.  Look at all those neat abilities!  Surely each is worth about a feat, right?  But they are not because they rarely save your butt when standing next to a Big Boss monster -- a Smite Evil or two doesn't cut it.From this I am gathering you have not played a paladin lately.  I am playing one, and there is quite a lot you can do.  You are considered to be part of the church, and you are a martial warrior.  In most generic fantasy worlds this places you a little bit behind actual landed nobility, giving you lots of leverage in asking for shelter, access to old records, etc.  Most paladins have good Charisma scores, meaning they are often the spokespeople of the party to important people (like actual nobles, upper church officials, good or lawful outsiders, etc).  My 6th level paladin has a +21 to his Diplomacy check - it's insane!  Even taking into account the nature of battle he can reasnoably use an action to halt combat (-10 for in-combat use, DC 20 to change a hostile encounter to a unfriendly one, DC 30 to make them indifferent).Then we get to the abilities themselves.  Smite is an awesome ability, made moreso now that paladins get more uses per day.  The spell list, while small, is very focused on powers useful to defeat evil and protect the innocent.  You become the central point of any combat against big evil due to the aura of courage.  Immunity to fear and disease means a willingness to go anywhere to fight, regardless of the threat.  Divine Grace means a paladin with middling charisma is gong to have among the best saves in the whole party at low to even mid level.  Sense evil is an incredible boost to a party - we've used it several times to help us navigate dungeons and chasing down opponents.While my paladin doesn't use the mount or the remove diseases they are both good abilities representing the dual sides of the paladin's role - to acts as the shield and sword of law and goodness.What you want is all the benefits of a fighter AND the benefits of the paladin - that's just cheesy.  From the list of feats at the beginning of this thread I don't see any that are of real import.  Weapon focus only nets you a single +1 to attack.  Big whoop.  Buying W.Focus 8 times for 8 different weapons seems very silly/unecessary to me, especially because by the time you pick up the last couple of feats that +1 is going to pale in comparison against other modifiers - why even bother?The other problem with the "more mounted/weapon feats" is the fact that it only shows one type opf paladin - the one you want for your campaign.  Fine enough to house rule, but it doesn't fit mine.  So instead of being a class I can use with some tweaking you've made it more unreasonable.I would like the paladin revised a bit - to get rid of a couple of dead levels and to loosen things up in terms of the focus of the class (I love that Hand of Mercy idea), but simply giving the paladin the fighter class' bonus feats seems, to me, the wrong way to go about it.- Ma'at</blockquote>

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