Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="SHARK" data-source="post: 1031382" data-attributes="member: 1131">Greetings!Well, Anubis, I gotta say that those scores that you have for your character aren't much different from what Celtavian posted as what he desired for his character. I mean that in a "qualitative" way. Having a lower strength--fine; but you also have a much higher dexterity, and an 18 in charisma as well. Celtavian said that he could envision a female paladin with a 12 strength, but that's beside the point. As far as his stats "telling you all that you need to know" really says what? That he's a munchkin or a powergamer, or what, really? To me, friend, it merely says that he has a different--and no less valid--expectation of what kind of stats work for his vision of what a paladin is to look like and be capable of. I might add that not being content with any stat below 10 or 12 for a paladin is not the same as demanding that all the stats be straight 18's. Expecting such stats to be higher, to some degree, is also not necessarily a "holdover" from 2nd Edition--it is simply a vision of a paladin character being blessed by the gods and gifted with a higher degree of natural ability than other characters or people.Personally, Celtavian's stat expectations are quite in-line with making at least good use of all of the paladin's strength, but it certainly doesn't mean that such abilities are exploited to their pinnacle. I don't expect I would want to play a paladin character with less than the stats Celtavian mentioned--unless I had a particular vision that required such--because it doesn't permit me to play the paladin with the kind of abilities that I think a paladin should be capable of. If I had lower stats, I would most likely play a fighter instead. I tend to see paladins--like Celtavian--as specially blessed by the gods, picked and annointed from the masses of humanity, so that the gods may raise them up to fight the good fight and perform incredible, heroic, and valiant deeds that will inspire people for generations. To that end, I see the paladin typically having higher stats--most somewhere in the 12-14 range or higher, with none lower than 10. That sounds "above average" to me, and quite appropriate for heroic paladins. Of course, you don't have to agree, but whether one expects paladin stats to be 12-14's or higher, or something quite different, doesn't mean that one is *better* and *lesser*. It just means that different people have different visions of what their different characters should look like and or be capable of. As an aside, there are numerous Epic level feats and such that a character just can't qualify for with stats of less than 22 or 25 for example. Those kind of heroic stats aren't going to be gained and thus an epic character that is worth a damn isn't going to be playable if the character has stats of less than 12-14 or so. In fact, I'd guess that they would have to be significantly higher than that in order to be playable. Aside from special magic items, a character desiring to be an effective epic level character would be highly dismayed at the feats that they couldn't access; combat feats that require strength of 25; dex feats requiring dex's of 21, 22, or 25; con feats requiring con's of 22 or 25; leadership and charisma feats requiring charisma of 22 or 25; and so on. Unless the character is decked out like a christmas tree, then if the character has a 14 strength+5 for stat gains; +5 for a magic book;=24; still insufficient for the best epic combat feats. That's just an example. If I wanted to play a heroic, plate armoured, greatsword-armed paladin who could kick ass and take names in the epic levels, it seems like a 16 strength would be a requirement. Again, it doesn't mean that *YOU* are wrong or inferior or stupid for being willing to play a paladin with a 12 strength--and in fact, are having fun with it. That's great, in fact. However, I would want a paladin to have a minimum of a 14 strength, and preferably higher. That's not because I can't or don't like to play complex characters, it's just because I don't prefer to play paladins that aren't strong, and capable of standing up in a hard fight. I don't like "weak" paladins. In my defininition, that's having a strength of less than 14. That goes back into how different people envision paladins though. I don't tend to see them as having many ordinary or mundane stat abilities. I tend to see them as having somewhat higher stats than average. That's my view of paladins. Fighters and other characters can often be quite fine with far lesser stats. I can see a hardened fighter with an intelligence or even a dexterity of 8; or a charisma of 8, and a wisdom of 10. All of those quirks and fluctuations in stats can all fit a very good fighter, and many different visions thereof. Paladins, though, at least in my book, *should* be something higher on the scale than the average mercenary, ale-swilling barbarian, or grizzled, cigarette-smoking soldier.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Cheers!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Semper Fidelis,SHARK</blockquote>

Verification