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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2718945" data-attributes="member: 2011">But, you called it an "overpowered spell that people do not seem to mind".Now, you seem to be backpedaling from that.Is it overpowered because it must be dealt with immediately and because it grapples? If so, then it would seem that Web and Entangle, two and three levels lower respectively, are also "overpowered".Or, is it not overpowered? Is it just a good spell like many other good spells? Very useful most of the time, but not game breaking.In our game, the BBEG monster got Time Hopped and while the PCs prepared, the Warmage put Evard's Black Tentacles in the location where the BBEG would reappear. The BBEG had a good grapple and flew out of the Tentacles immediately. In our current campaign that started at 9th level and is now 11th, it has been cast 3 times and it has not once killed anyone. In fact, the only character trapped in it for more than 2 rounds at a time was paralyzed (due to Drow poison) at the time. Web and Entangle have proven more bothersome than that at lower level.Just like all spells, Evard's is situationally dependent when it comes to power.It also has no saving throw and it doesn't just grapple the opponent, it makes the opponent nearly helpless. The only three defenses against this spell are:1) Immunity to mind control type spells.2) Spell Resistance.3) Having a very high touch AC.There are many characters and monsters that do not have any of these three defenses. And, the third defense is only a delaying tactic. A 20 will hit anyone, regardless of touch AC and touch spells can be held.And unlike Evard's, Otto's does not provide a protection versus melee or melee touch attacks. You generally cannot go up and hit an opponent in the Tentacles (unless they are at the edge). Anyone can go up and full round attack or touch with a melee touch spell a dancing opponent.Otto's is 8th level because it is very close to a save or die spell with no save.It is a huge spell. It's similar (except for range) to Hold Person and Hold Monster, but without a saving throw every round.You mean like Color Spray or Sleep at first level? What good is magic if it is never powerful? That's why many NPCs should fear magic because it should often seem powerful to them.Evard's and Otto's have different goals. One is to hamper and slightly damage a group of opponents. The other is to make a single opponent nearly helpless with very few ways to defend against it. Apples and Oranges.You should be comparing Evard's to other fourth level hampering spells, not eighth level immobilizing spells.</blockquote>

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