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Message: <blockquote data-quote="helium3" data-source="post: 2720296" data-attributes="member: 31301">Why do you have to talk down to people like this? It doesn't do anything to help your argument and just makes people (well, me at least) ignore what your'e saying. I assume you'll be replying with something along the lines of "I'm already ignoring you so neener-neener?"You are correct in this assertion. However, your initial argument was that your psion could buff up to ridiculously high armor classes and hold off the BBEQ all by herself, and that was one indicator of how psionics were unbalanced. I was simply responding to this. You picked the example, not me.Yes, the Psion can in fact buff AC up higher by a whole 6 points. However, as I pointed out with my very clear cut and straight forward example, this is done by expending a greater percentage of the character's daily "oomph" than the wizard. The Psion was, in fact, smoking through her Power Points. If you're unwilling to concede this very clear and obvious fact, then we really don't have much to discuss.Actually, an Elan wizard COULD have this ability. It's not a "psions only" feat. Heck, if a non-psionic character wanted it, all they have to do is take the "wild talent" feat. Sure, it's an extra feat, but as you have so correctly pointed out, it's a nice set of abilities to have. It's not as if psychic weapon and the rest of that tree are feats that Psions get for free.So can I assume that you also think it's unfair and a destabilizer of "balance" that sorcerers and bards have exactly the same ability to cast spontaneously as psionic PC's?From the SRD:From the Psionic SRD:So yes, more psionic powers are going to be castable while being grappled or pinned but a concentration check still needs to be made. I would also assume that the requirement that the power have a casting time of one standard action or less applies, but this isn't in the SRD, so I'm sure the RAW-Folks will argue with me on this.Is psionics clearly better than arcane magic in these instances? Yes. Is it so much better as to be considered broken? That's up to debate, I think. I don't believe it's clearly as broken as you seem to think it is. I think that most casters that are being grappled would want to focus on getting away, and the best spells for that (dimension door and teleport) are still available. Also, when looking at broken-ness, you have to take into account how often the situation where the potential broken rule is applied. That being said, this is an example of where a Psionic character has it better than an Arcane character.Yes, a third level spell that heals a little better than a cure light wounds cast by a 1st level cleric.  Granted, it can be augmented all the way up to a nineth level spell that can heal a whopping 7d12 (on average about 45.5 hit points). That's a seriously unbalanced ability. I suppose you also throw a hissy fit whenever a bard casts a healing spell? Now, if you're arguing simply that it's unbalanced because a wizard cannot cast similar spells then I suppose you're right. Of course, if you state that psions can only have powers that wizards have analgous spells for, they essentially become sorcerers with a different mechanic for handling spells per day. What exactly is the point of that? Psions have a selection of powers that are different from those of arcane casters so that the classes are actually different, not just the same class with different spellcasting mechanics.As I said earlier, you're the one that started off with the example of your inspired slayer being buffed up into the high 30's with respect to AC and able to hold off the BBEG all by herself. Stop trying to get so much mileage out of trying to imply that I'm attempting to set up some kind of straw-man.First of all, when doing an analysis like this you HAVE TO compare apples to apples. So, it's somewhat bad form to have the spell casting selection different between one case and another. It makes a direct comparison more difficult. So, I would remove the thicken skin so that they're both casting the same number of spells.That being said, the crucial difference between the wizard case and the psion case is that the wizard cast a 1st level spell, followed by another 1st level spell followed by a fourth level spell. In the psion case, the psion cast a fourth level spell, followed by a 1st level spell followed by a first level spell followed by another fourth level spell. If we drop the thicken skin, the only difference in the two routines is that the wizard cast a 1st level spell to improve his armor bonus, whereas the psion cast a 4th level spell to improve his armor bonus. It's ludicrous to think that a psion would manifest a 4th level power to get the benefits of a 1st level spell.Of course the psion is going to have more total "oomph" than a wizard. They're spontaneous casters and their more limited spell selection is to be compensated by a correspondingly increased level of said "oomph." If you think the above is a problem, then I expect to see you posting screeds about how unbalanced sorcerers are as well.That being said, if you can show me that a Psion has as much "oomph" as a Sorcerer, I would readily agree that psions probably have too many power points per day.So what are your complaints really?Your complaint about fighting in melee isn't valid when you consider that there's nothing preventing a wizard from having the same feats, though in the case of a non-psionic races, they would have to additionally take the wild talent feat. If a psion had martial weapon proficiency and a better BAB progression, I'd certainly agree. But since we're talking about feats that are generally available to anyone at roughly the same cost, I don't.You're flat out wrong when it comes to complaining that psions have too much "oomph" relative to a wizard. They abosolutely should be able to cast more spells per day than a wizard of the same level. If you have a problem with that then can I assume you also have the same problem with Sorcerers? Psions certainly shouldn't have as much power as a sorcerer, and if they do then that's a definite problem.As for the rest of it, I'll freely admit that some Psionic powers are better than the Arcane counterpart by virtue of being augmentable. In the case of Intertial Armor and Force Screen versus Mage Armor and Shield, what it really boils down to is that Psions in effect have access to higher level versions of those spells that simply don't exist in the Wizard spell list. Why is that? I dunno. Ask the game designers. My guess is that the Psion is nothing more than an example of how Sorcerers ought to work.Oh yes, and the lack of casting components does make psionic characters less vulnerable to situations where non-psionic casters need to worry. How often in game has that actually mattered? For me, not very often. Maybe it's mattered more in the games you've played in, and if so, that's too bad.</blockquote>

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