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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Akrasia" data-source="post: 1893459" data-attributes="member: 23012">I agree with you that rules complexity is not likely to deter younger potential gamers (i.e. gamers with plenty of spare time).However, rules complexity is, ironically, a problem for many older gamers.A lot older gamers don't play as much D&D as they would like to precisely because the rules complexity of the current system takes up so much time to master and use (albeit much more so for DMs, especially regarding prep time, than players, but you need DMs to play).  The consequence: they can't fit it into their schedule anymore (and hence don't buy anymore books, or miniatures ...).At least that has been the experience of many of my 30+ friends and associates.  Many of these 30+ folk gave 3E a try, and then either abandoned it for another system, or quit gaming altogether, because of the rules system.  In my case, I am willing to devote a fair bit of my spare time to this hobby, but I will probably never DM 3E again because of how much 'work' (in terms of 'not-especially-fun' statblock summaries, looking up possible modifiers, etc.) it takes to prep sessions, how slow the game actually progresses in play (especially combat), and the fact that the 'crunchiness' of the system means that IME the game rules are never really in 'the background' during the session.  I know from experience that I am not alone in feeling this way, among people in their late 20s and 30s.So there are actually two distinct RPG audiences out there:(a.) Those players who like a lot of rules (complexity, variables, 'crunch', or whatever).  These players have the time and interest to master all the rules materials out there, will actually make use of it in their games, and enjoy this 'engineering' aspect of the game.  I was one of these players, when I was in high-school.  The minitatures game might be a very good 'gateway game' for these kinds of players.  Once 'adult life' settles in, however, I suspect that many players are no longer interested in complex 'crunchy' systems with plenty of options -- or even if they are still interested, they just don't have the time or energy for it.Obviously WotC (and other d20 companies) has focused on this group.  This makes sense, I guess, since this group resembles the CCG market, and thus is likely both to keep buying new products (as their allowances or part-time jobs permit), and recruit new players.However, there is a cost, namely:(b.) Those players who want a coherent, comprehensive, but 'rules lite' (or at least 'less crunchy') system -- a system that covers most/all 'in game' situations, but employs fewer modifiers, variables, etc. -- that does not require as much time to 'master' and 'prep'.  A lot of players in their 20's and 30's fall into this category -- they would like to play D&D, but don't want to invest the time and work into it that 3E seems to require.   Focusing on (a.) might make marketing sense, but it is losing out on players with a fair bit of disposable income (b.).  In addition, players of type (a.) frequently cease to be type (a.) players once they go off to grad school, or join the workforce...Obviously (a.) and (b.) are just 'ideal types' -- there are many busy 30+ professionals who love all the 3E crunch, and find the time to deal with it; and many teens who prefer 'rules lite' systems.But while recruiting 'new blood' is an important goal, so is keeping the 'old blood'.  And, as far as I can tell, WotC doesn't seem much interested in the latter.  :\</blockquote>

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