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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 90900" data-attributes="member: 2067">What I think has basically been surmised by the CH and Josh already...If you take away the most effective spells for a spellcaster, and don't give them anything to compensate, in the eyes of a player, they will GET THE SHAFT. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Even if the world itself is low-magic, so what the character can do is extra-special, if it's so much smoke and mirrors, it's not actually useful for plundering dragon hordes and dealing with demons and such.People will still take it, just because there will still be the appeal of being able to use magic (it's no small appeal, after all). But they'll have to be shepherded by the classes that are better at...well...nearly anything...than the wizard.Wizards, without their spells, suck. Especially in comparison to the rest of the classes, but even in comparison to the monsters of the world. They're sitting ducks.Why would I bother taking a level of Wizard at all, even buffed up with some extra HP from Expert, if he won't be able to do anything without someone else helping him out? Why not spend those levels a bit more effectively on something...useful. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But, hey, whatever you have fun with. I'm just saying that I, as a player, would have big qualms about taking a level in anything that gave me abilities that were only useful for making others better, and the only reason I survived was by the good graces of the DM and those that I beef up.That's why, I think, clerics and other divine spellcasters have armor (the big mechanical difference between arcane and divine magic) and are no slouches when dishing out the damage (with decent BAB's, decent HP's, and a slight edge in the weapons department). Because, otherwise, they're just spellcasters that help out everyone else and don't get to do anything without their party members.Everyone likes to be able to function independantly of the party, and to be able to contribute when they are in a party. This wizard you're describing seems like a walking, talking "eat me" sign to orcs. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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