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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 5995625" data-attributes="member: 1465">I agree that this (and the Warlock too) is going to be quite a narrow concept for many campaigns, but then I guess than for other groups even the Paladin, the Ranger or the Bard are too narrow concepts.I'm not sure if they have anything comparable to 3ed Prestige Classes in mind, my guess is not... But I would like &quot;niche&quot; concepts to be treated in a different way than PrCls, at least as they were in 3ed, because they were not really meant just for &quot;niche&quot; but rather for &quot;elite&quot; characters, hence the fact that only mid-high level characters had a PrCl. A &quot;niche&quot; character concept doesn't necessarily imply a certain power level, so it might be more appropriate to allow it since 1st level, and I think this is quite the case for the current Sorcerer and Warlock concepts.Thus a base class is better (although not the only options... it could have been done differently I guess, e.g. a theme/specialty, but then it would work only in games where feats are used), so my only &quot;solution&quot; to making them feel appropriately niche is to have these classes somewhere else than the PHB.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 5995625, member: 1465"] I agree that this (and the Warlock too) is going to be quite a narrow concept for many campaigns, but then I guess than for other groups even the Paladin, the Ranger or the Bard are too narrow concepts. I'm not sure if they have anything comparable to 3ed Prestige Classes in mind, my guess is not... But I would like "niche" concepts to be treated in a different way than PrCls, at least as they were in 3ed, because they were not really meant just for "niche" but rather for "elite" characters, hence the fact that only mid-high level characters had a PrCl. A "niche" character concept doesn't necessarily imply a certain power level, so it might be more appropriate to allow it since 1st level, and I think this is quite the case for the current Sorcerer and Warlock concepts. Thus a base class is better (although not the only options... it could have been done differently I guess, e.g. a theme/specialty, but then it would work only in games where feats are used), so my only "solution" to making them feel appropriately niche is to have these classes somewhere else than the PHB. [/QUOTE]

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