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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 129052" data-attributes="member: 78">If you made Bull's Str first level with a 1 round/level duration and greater magic weapon with 1 round per level a 3rd level cleric spell, I wouldn't use those versions.&nbsp; The main point of persistent spell is to turn a spell that has a short duration and thus uses up a combat action into a spell doesn't need a combat action since it's always up.&nbsp; Similarly, Quicken spell also turns a combat action into a trivial action.&nbsp; Both cost 4 spell levels.&nbsp; In most cases, going the other way around for one level spell is a waste.&nbsp; However, looking at the numbers you have up, Assassin's senses does seem better than keen if we assume the that duration vs spell level is wash.&nbsp; I'm not too sure on this, but keen edge is only 10 min, so it's probably close.&nbsp; However, am I the only person who thinks Keen Edge sucks?&nbsp; The only reason I've seen people learn it is to make keen weapons, not to cast it during adventures.&nbsp; Compared to other buffing level 3 spells like GMW, keen edge feels weak.&nbsp; In other words, just because Keen Edge sucks, doesn't mean all other similar spells should be forced down.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Victim, post: 129052, member: 78"] If you made Bull's Str first level with a 1 round/level duration and greater magic weapon with 1 round per level a 3rd level cleric spell, I wouldn't use those versions. The main point of persistent spell is to turn a spell that has a short duration and thus uses up a combat action into a spell doesn't need a combat action since it's always up. Similarly, Quicken spell also turns a combat action into a trivial action. Both cost 4 spell levels. In most cases, going the other way around for one level spell is a waste. However, looking at the numbers you have up, Assassin's senses does seem better than keen if we assume the that duration vs spell level is wash. I'm not too sure on this, but keen edge is only 10 min, so it's probably close. However, am I the only person who thinks Keen Edge sucks? The only reason I've seen people learn it is to make keen weapons, not to cast it during adventures. Compared to other buffing level 3 spells like GMW, keen edge feels weak. In other words, just because Keen Edge sucks, doesn't mean all other similar spells should be forced down. [/QUOTE]

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