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Is the Spiked Chain Fighter really that Cheesy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 4096323" data-attributes="member: 3929"><p>The Power Attacking Greatsword wielding Maug will deal more damage, and go through more PCs who think that closing to melee is a good idea, than the Chain wielder. The PCs won't have the hilarious time getting tripped, but how much more hilarious is getting Cloven?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nor do I suggest such. I merely suggest that if you make the NPC more difficult to overcome, the Challenge Rating, designed to reflect the difficulty of overcoming the challenge, should increase. It doesn't mean that NPCs shouldn't optimize, only that DMs should take into consideration how much harder they're making things for the PCs.</p><p></p><p>A straight-from-the-monster-manual goblin has a CR 1/3. The CR rises when you add levels in Fighter. If you agree that a level 10 goblin fighter shouldn't be a CR 1/3, then what's the significant difference between that and raising the CR of a Maug who takes optimized feats and is only encountered in environments that gives the advantage to the Maug?</p><p></p><p></p><p>At first level all parties have a sort of parity. At 15th you can have a wide gulf between one party and the next. Which is why the CR system is "broken" at higher levels: there is no possible way for any system to anticipate the strength and weaknesses of an infinite number of party compositions. Such fine-tuning necessarily must be left to the DM, who is the only one familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of his particular group. The CR system gives the DM a good starting point for NPC challenges, but a DM will feel betrayed if he (erroneously) believes the CR system is a rubber stamp that needs no input from him.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's just it: the Achilles' heel of tripping is its intended target: small numbers of Small and Medium bipedal creatures. If you confine yourself to always attacking those enemies, you'll be a wunderkind. If you run into wargs, monsterous spiders, giants, centaurs, dwarves, dragons, oozes, waves of zombies and skeletons, stirges, et cetera, on any kind of regular basis, the combat style you spent your resources developing will count for Jack.</p><p></p><p>And Jack left town.</p><p></p><p>(The natural response is that parties are made up of small numbers of Small and Medium bipedal creatures. Which would make Tripping a pain in the butt if the DM kept throwing optimized tripper after optimized tripper. Throwing wave after wave of ranged opponents against melee parties would do likewise. Construct after construct against a party of rogues. Only undead against parties lacking clerical support. Tripping is not unique in this regard.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Felix, post: 4096323, member: 3929"] The Power Attacking Greatsword wielding Maug will deal more damage, and go through more PCs who think that closing to melee is a good idea, than the Chain wielder. The PCs won't have the hilarious time getting tripped, but how much more hilarious is getting Cloven? Nor do I suggest such. I merely suggest that if you make the NPC more difficult to overcome, the Challenge Rating, designed to reflect the difficulty of overcoming the challenge, should increase. It doesn't mean that NPCs shouldn't optimize, only that DMs should take into consideration how much harder they're making things for the PCs. A straight-from-the-monster-manual goblin has a CR 1/3. The CR rises when you add levels in Fighter. If you agree that a level 10 goblin fighter shouldn't be a CR 1/3, then what's the significant difference between that and raising the CR of a Maug who takes optimized feats and is only encountered in environments that gives the advantage to the Maug? At first level all parties have a sort of parity. At 15th you can have a wide gulf between one party and the next. Which is why the CR system is "broken" at higher levels: there is no possible way for any system to anticipate the strength and weaknesses of an infinite number of party compositions. Such fine-tuning necessarily must be left to the DM, who is the only one familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of his particular group. The CR system gives the DM a good starting point for NPC challenges, but a DM will feel betrayed if he (erroneously) believes the CR system is a rubber stamp that needs no input from him. That's just it: the Achilles' heel of tripping is its intended target: small numbers of Small and Medium bipedal creatures. If you confine yourself to always attacking those enemies, you'll be a wunderkind. If you run into wargs, monsterous spiders, giants, centaurs, dwarves, dragons, oozes, waves of zombies and skeletons, stirges, et cetera, on any kind of regular basis, the combat style you spent your resources developing will count for Jack. And Jack left town. (The natural response is that parties are made up of small numbers of Small and Medium bipedal creatures. Which would make Tripping a pain in the butt if the DM kept throwing optimized tripper after optimized tripper. Throwing wave after wave of ranged opponents against melee parties would do likewise. Construct after construct against a party of rogues. Only undead against parties lacking clerical support. Tripping is not unique in this regard.) [/QUOTE]
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Is the Spiked Chain Fighter really that Cheesy?
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