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Message: <blockquote data-quote="n00b f00" data-source="post: 6833331" data-attributes="member: 6795700">TLDR some classesand concepts are more MAD than others. But not unbearably so. It's not a big deal.Con is important for casters, it's a good argument I've seen before. Yet I feel less comfortable with a 14 con on a paladin than a wizard. I guess I just, perhaps wrongly, assume the paladin will be barfed on more by con save abilities.I'm not only interested in min maxing. I like finding what I think are fun combos that still work. Few of my characters are variant pole arm masters humans, but most of them are con proficient. I don't have 8s in my primary class stat, but I will dip into monk with a ranger to have a more pulp hero feel.But some classes are more stat hungry. Compare eldritch knight to paladin. EK is already con proficient, EK gets more ASIs, EK spells known is based off level and not int mod. Many of the spells EKs use require no saves or rolls. Absorb elements, shield, and other buffs do not require int, neither do melee based cantrips. If they want to pump int, which they have more points for, they can then drop some fireballs or burning hands to some effect on occasion. Nice but not vital. With paladins cha mod adds to spells prepared, saves from their aura, number of divine sense uses, the saved for their extra smites, their channel divinity saves. It's a more difficult decision to pump cha over a feat or something else with paladins than it is with an EK or most classes. Just because how they are designed.Now paladins are generally considered to be extremely strong and EKs aren't. I'm also sure I'd enjoy playing in a game with 12 as my top stat as any class. I still enjoy tinkering with classes like paladins on paper with point buy.But the point remains that from a mechanical perspective some classes are a little more MAD than others. An archer based rogue has more than enough points to increase their primary stats and play around with some extra points, whether that's to get a really high perspective score, or just bump int to RP a part time university professor. If you're interested in having a min maxed/optimized/strong/whatever character, some builds just have more mechanical and RP diversity.I don't think it's a large failing of the system, or honestly a big deal personally. It's certainly a much smaller one than in previous editions and for the better. But I do think some classes are more MAD than others. Which is what I thought the conversation was about, not our personal feelings about power gaming.Also when it comes to what term to use, optimization or power level or whatever. I'm really not sure. What I was referring to was that between hard caps, caps at char gen, the number of ASIs and the point buy system. It's pretty easy to get what you ultimately want for any class. It's just with some it's easier to spend a few extra points raising cha to 14 on your ranger mostly for flavor. I'm not sure if you'd refer to that as raising the power level or being easier to min max and staying thematic or what. But it's an issue easily remedied with rolling or using a 32 point buy, which others have suggested earlier in relation to this, some would say unimportant , quirk.</blockquote>

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