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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6418526" data-attributes="member: 2525">I am arguing that the running jump rules cover what you can get at with a move, and then the attack rule covers what you can Reach with your attack, starting from wherever you left off with your move.  So the jump extends your arm a certain length, and then the attack accounts for attack Reach. This split makes sense, because some creatures have a normal Reach for attacks but are very tall, while others have an unusually long Reach for attacks and are very tall, and the normal jump rules only cover the general rules for all creatures in terms of what they can get at with the jump movement, not for an attack made at the apex of their jump.  Here is an example to explain it: Let's say you two otherwise-identical 50' tall humanoids, each with a 14 strength (+2).  One has a whip with 15' Reach to attack with, the other just attacks with their fist with a normal 5' Reach.  They both want to attack a target (foe) above them, and want to know what the maximum height above them a target can be for their attack if they were to first make a running jump at it and then attack it.The jump rule says (for this kind of jump where you move 10' forward first) that you can get at something overhead with a jump a distance equal to your jump, plus your height (50' in this case) multiplied by 1.5.  Both can jump the same height, both jump 5' up (the rule for such a jump in this example is 3+strength, which in this case is +2), and can get at something 75' up with their arms during this jump (50' height x 1.5 = 75').  So they can both get at something 80' (5' jump + 75' based on height) up with a jump (a move).Both can attack at the apex of their jump.  Just like any other move, where you can attack at any point during your move, and then continue to move after your attack...in this case, back down to the ground, and then perhaps further on along the ground if they wished and still had some movement left.The difference comes with the whip.  The 50' humanoid with the whip can attack something further up than the 50' humanoid with just a fist, because the whip adds Reach to the attack. The whip however does not add any additional feet to what that 50' humanoid can get at with just the jump, as Reach is only something that applies to an attack, and the jump itself is movement and not an attack.So if the whip in this case has a Reach of 15', then the 50' humanoid with the whip can hit something above him a further 10' more than the 50' humanoid with just his fist, who only has a 5' reach with his fist.  Both will be attacking from the same point in their jump - 80' up. So the one with the whip can hit something 95' up while the guy with the fist can only hit something 85' up.That is my interpretation of how you would combine a running jump with an attack that involves reach. I appreciate that some disagree, but I don't think it's an unreasonable interpretation of those rules.</blockquote>

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