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<blockquote data-quote="The Shadow" data-source="post: 1492125" data-attributes="member: 16760"><p>I'm astonished. How can something that is not a breach of ethics or morals be "sleazy"? Is that term perhaps truly a synonym for "things JohnRTroy doesn't like"? If so, I would submit that that is a rather idiosyncratic use of words, bound to confuse others.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How can it conceivably be discourteous to someone to do something (which is not unethical or immoral) that they have, of their own free will, explicitly spelled out that you may do, and indeed have positively INVITED you to do?</p><p></p><p>As someone else said, I'm all for promoting ethical behavior over the law. But I don't see what's unethical about treating open content as, well, "open". Nobody has had their arm twisted into releasing material as open content - it was a choice on their part, and I doubt it was a choice anybody made with eyes shut.</p><p></p><p>The six-month "grace period" idea is a splendid one. It is both generous and practical. But it's not common courtesy, not the minimum level of decency, it is generosity - going beyond the minimum. And this is the behavior you have seen fit to call "sleazy" and "unethical" - though you seem to have retreated somewhat from the latter.</p><p></p><p>I'll tell you what I find discourteous, and indeed rude - it's seeing people called names and their integrity called into question for no good cause.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What is so difficult to understand about this concept? It escapes me. You make it sound like poor publishers out there are releasing open content while being hoodwinked, or led astray, or deceived by fine print. In fact, that they're being defrauded.</p><p></p><p>Do you really think publishers are unable to read the letter of the document? Or that they are incapable of understanding it? Sounds to me like you're insulting them at least as much as you're insulting the people here. Are you unaware that the OGL was CREATED by a game publisher because they hoped - apparently successfully - to make money off of it?</p><p></p><p>Publishers use the OGL because they think it will improve their bottom line. Maybe, in some cases, they turn out to be wrong. That's not because of any "discourtesy" or "sleaziness" on the part of their customers, it's because they made a bad business decision. Happens all the time. It's not a tragedy.</p><p></p><p>To hear you talk, anyone would think that open content was released only out of desperation, ignorance, stupidity, or duress. If you were right, the demise of the OGL would be the best thing that could possibly happen - but the people being unethical would be the people who created it, not the people who make use of it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Shadow, post: 1492125, member: 16760"] I'm astonished. How can something that is not a breach of ethics or morals be "sleazy"? Is that term perhaps truly a synonym for "things JohnRTroy doesn't like"? If so, I would submit that that is a rather idiosyncratic use of words, bound to confuse others. How can it conceivably be discourteous to someone to do something (which is not unethical or immoral) that they have, of their own free will, explicitly spelled out that you may do, and indeed have positively INVITED you to do? As someone else said, I'm all for promoting ethical behavior over the law. But I don't see what's unethical about treating open content as, well, "open". Nobody has had their arm twisted into releasing material as open content - it was a choice on their part, and I doubt it was a choice anybody made with eyes shut. The six-month "grace period" idea is a splendid one. It is both generous and practical. But it's not common courtesy, not the minimum level of decency, it is generosity - going beyond the minimum. And this is the behavior you have seen fit to call "sleazy" and "unethical" - though you seem to have retreated somewhat from the latter. I'll tell you what I find discourteous, and indeed rude - it's seeing people called names and their integrity called into question for no good cause. What is so difficult to understand about this concept? It escapes me. You make it sound like poor publishers out there are releasing open content while being hoodwinked, or led astray, or deceived by fine print. In fact, that they're being defrauded. Do you really think publishers are unable to read the letter of the document? Or that they are incapable of understanding it? Sounds to me like you're insulting them at least as much as you're insulting the people here. Are you unaware that the OGL was CREATED by a game publisher because they hoped - apparently successfully - to make money off of it? Publishers use the OGL because they think it will improve their bottom line. Maybe, in some cases, they turn out to be wrong. That's not because of any "discourtesy" or "sleaziness" on the part of their customers, it's because they made a bad business decision. Happens all the time. It's not a tragedy. To hear you talk, anyone would think that open content was released only out of desperation, ignorance, stupidity, or duress. If you were right, the demise of the OGL would be the best thing that could possibly happen - but the people being unethical would be the people who created it, not the people who make use of it. [/QUOTE]
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