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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4842250" data-attributes="member: 82106">There is no definitive list and you won't find any single one thing that people can all agree on is broken. 95% of the stuff people house rule is just their opinions of what they didn't like. There are a few things that are fairly consistently deemed quite cheesy. For example Lasting Frost plus Wintertouched which can be used with cold powers to create a pretty solid lockdown situation. Stacking of penalties to saves is probably the most often cited thing and if anything is agreed on pretty consistently it is that you can create several builds that can get very reliable lockdowns with for instance an Orb wizard using sleep at high levels with a few extras thrown in. There are other ways to get the same effect though so it isn't really specifically orb wizards. There are some issues with stacking static damage modifiers sky high and then combining it with multi-hit powers like RoB or Blade Cascade. Usually achieved via Reckless or Bloodclaw weapons and augmented with anything that will allow you to regain an encounter or daily power use. As to whether its broken or not is arguable. I've seen dual wielding ranger builds that can hit single round damage totals that can go over 1000 points. Of course at level 30 that kind of thing is almost to be expected and many of those types of characters are hard pressed to do much if their trick doesn't happen to work either.There are a couple of Epic Destinies that can create issues as well. Punisher of the Gods can be interpreted to allow infinite damage in certain situations. Of course you can easily find ways to rule around that. The Demigod ED is widely considered to be cheesily OP as well. One or two others could be problematic.You will find a pretty fair number of people that will insist that BRV fighters are brokenly OP, but it is by no means a universally held opinion. There are those who would consider double weapons in general to be OP and thus falling into the cheese category, but at worst they are slightly better than other choices. The worst example there is either Tempest Fighter with double sword/axe/flail and any double weapon except double sword combined with RoB. That last one can provide a pretty serious amount of damage once per encounter, if you can land several hits. It is probably safer to consider RoB OP for its level and double weapons being somewhat OP in the right hands. Considering you see plenty of people not using double weapons when they theoretically could IMHO it is only a problem if people push it. There is no real consensus on what the best fix is either, aside from just ignoring them.In any case a good charop player can definitely extract some significant advantage out of the rules, but it is pretty difficult to say that any single one thing is responsible for that. Overall even the most optimized characters are only modestly stronger than a reasonably built character most decent players will be running. Its not like you can build a PC that can just drag the rest of the party around for a ride. You will find a zillion threads arguing various rules interpretion issues as well. There are plenty of minor areas where particular powers or corner cases or specific uses of a power that aren't explicitly ruled out can be either unclear or seem unfair/OP to some people. Teleporting enemies for example. There is nothing really forbidding you to teleport them straight up in the air or off a cliff. Yet there are some fairly low level ways to do it, which can definitely get some people's noses bent out of shape. There are some people who will tell you that certain skills can be abused. For example it is possible to start with some rather significant skill bonuses. 20 stat = +5, trained +5, background +2, skill focus +3, racial bonus +2 will give you +17 and with some skills a human can go a bit higher starting out. Apply that to intimidate and combine with a very rigid and literal interpretation of using it in combat can lead to something of a headache character to deal with. You could nerf intimidate in combat, but it seems a shame to do that since it can be used with no problems. If a player insists on building this sort of character it just puts a bit more burden on the DM to balance out what they are allowed to do with it vs letting the character go too far.Finally there are plenty of areas where the DM will simply have to rule certain things. For example the fighter utility power Rain of Steel. Does it apply damage to an invisible enemy? Only the DM can say what the answer to that is. Some are convinced one way or the other, and some of us would say it can't be answered by RAW.4e just really doesn't have significantly broken things and while some things probably are somewhat OP the game is good at living with that. With the possible exception of Punisher of the Gods and stacking of save penalties you can really play OOTB and not have problems. And those 2 issues are ones that won't rear their ugly heads before Epic play anyway, so it isn't like you need to run and fix them before you start.</blockquote>

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