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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Empirate" data-source="post: 5734118" data-attributes="member: 78958">Not my point really. I was on about the exceedingly high cost of many metamagic feats, not about the general utility of having metamagic in the game.To use your example: an Empowered Fireball takes a 5th level slot, meaning we probably have a 9th or 10th level caster if that spell is his current opening. Let's say 10th level. That's 15d6 points of damage (average of 52 points), with a save for half and the not uncommon fire resistance to counter it. Sure, 52 points of damage is nice, but at 10th level? Nothing to write home about, really. An unoptimized raging Half-Orc Barbarian easily does 30 to 40 points of damage per attack at that level, taking two attacks on a full attack, more with Haste etc. A two-weapon fighting Rogue comes to around 20-25 per attack, and can take four attacks on a full attack, five with Haste etc. Granted, the Empowered Fireball works on an area (but how often have you caught more than three enemies in the area, once your DM grows wise to your tricks?), but then there's the save for half, and you won't do the same next round, and so on and so forth.Furthermore, what group of equivalent level is taken out by a mere 52 points of damage, even if all of them are in the area, none have fire resistance (or Minor Globe of Invulnerability, or Blink, or whatever), and all of them fail their save? Sure, a 6th level group is in trouble, but a 10th level caster can just pick spells blindly and still present a deadly challenge to a gropu four levels lower. A 10th level group, on the other hand, will just say "that all you got?". Doing non-fatal damage doesn't impact the opposition's ability to kill you.Doing a bunch of damage simply isn't an impressive use of spellcasting power, especially when you're doing it with your highest-level spell slot. This is even more true when you're playing a PC, who can normally rely on having some heavily armed folks around for cleanup. Empowered 3rd level spells rarely compare to the options you could get in 4th and 5th level, without spending a feat. Maximized 3rd level spells don't compare to what you can get in 6th level. And so on.</blockquote>

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