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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Amal Shukup" data-source="post: 1760094" data-attributes="member: 6291">Chiming in on a couple of points.Re: 3.x complexity, 'kitchen sink' approach.Yes, I think WoTC did put a LOT of rules into the new game. HOWEVER, as someone who spent many, many years 'fiddling' with 1st and 2nd Ed trying to get it to support the things our group(s) wanted and work the way we expected it to, I'm pleased to have a (mostly) consistent, (quite) expandable system to play in. I don't even wanna talk about how many times I 'lifted the hood' of previous editions trying to 'fix' weapon speeds, and initiative, and non-traditional combat manoevers. (Do you guys remember the 1st ed Bard? the Monk?? Thief abilities/skills? Egads!) Books upon books of house rules, addendums, caveats, exceptions...The thing about NOT having consistent rules for event resolution:I played a character from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. Both 1st and 2nd Ed. From 1st level all the way up to non-trivial badA$$. 18 CHA (6 Wis though...). Equipped with much sharpness and iron mongery. But somehow, I never once succesfully intimidated an NPC guard, shop keeper, peasant...  Why? Because it typically didn't suit my DM's 'plot' that I do so (in many other ways, a great DM. sigh). See, the Player's idea for a plot occurence (NPC backs away in abject terror and lets the party pass) is JUST as valid as the ideas of the smarmy guy behind the screen (usually me, these days). Yay 3.x!THAT said. Certain aspects of the game DO slow down play - interrupting momentum and derailing roleplaying and immersion. Switching to 3.5 exacerbated that because we had to relearn a lot, and our 'confidence' that we know a rule was diminished - which prompts a fair amount of 'book cracking'. I don't think this is so much a problem with complexity per se as it is with a lack of tools to manage it. Computer support helps. Building tables of DC's helps immensely. Cobbling together reference sheets with ALL the rules associated with a common occurrence into one place is good too. ______________________________________________________New Boxed Set as 'Gateway' tool rather than fully separate game.Absolutely. 100% the case. Guilty as charged. And I agree with WoTC's approach 100%. The goal isn't, and should NOT be, to appeal to 'Joe Public' with a fully formed 'D&D' game. D&D (fantasy roleplaying) as a concept and experience is only going to appeal to certain segments of the population. The assumption underlying many of the comments here is that these segments are already playing the game and require no further effort; and that to 'expand the market', WoTC needs to develop D&D branded product that appeals to the OTHER segment(s) ('Joe Public' and his ilk) that would likely not enjoy playing the 'current' version of D&D). This is SO not true. HUGE swaths of the target (potentially RPG-positive) segments remain untapped - not because they haven't heard of D&D, but because they haven't tried it, are unlikely to, and have no idea that they might like it. WHY? Because there are SUBSTANTIAL 'barriers to purchase' that prevent people from trying the game:  - PERCEIVED complexity (intimidating)  - Can LOOK boring. Paper? Dice? Pencils?? Mountain Dew??? No joystick????  - Expense: $100 to DM (and you gotta have one) $30 to play  - 'Geek Factor' So, in order to more readily transition folk from the general population you need your 'gateway game' to:   - Look less complex/intimidating. BEING so is good too  - Look 'fun' (not boring. <ikea>unboring?</ikea>)  - Cost LESS  - Enable players to start EARLIER (when less subject to social pressures, and not yet committed to alternate entertainment)Tah Dah! New Boxed set from WoTC. I can't WAIT to give this thing to my Niece (10) whom I recently found DROOLING over my monster manual and my boxes of figures...I think it will work well for 'introductory' games with teens/adults as well - even if they don't have an experienced DM to initiate them into the mysteries... The point is, lots of people are now more likely to try the thing.If they hate it? Fine - they're not a customer. And that's okay. If they enjoy it? Lots of play opportunity in the box (or there should be - skirmishes, trying different classes, builds...), and THEN??  Well, a whole industry awaits to profit on the back of this 'incomplete' little game...A'Mal</blockquote>

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