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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 4842162" data-attributes="member: 80487">I can't speak for billd91, but some things come to mind. They are related in complex ways, though, and this is very much a matter of perception and temperament as to whether a design is a help or hindrance.(A) The equation of lots of number crunching and dice rolls with "support" does not hold for everyone. It can even be seen as distancing players from engagement with a situation via role-playing. This is a common response to 4E, and not always a negative one; many people prefer to see "challenges" directed at their numerically quantified characters rather than at them as players.(B) The premise that all other aspects of play are but ways to set up combat scenarios does indeed get pushed a bit in 4E, as it was in 3E. However, the pre-2E game was much more clearly nuanced. If combat played too little a role, then much of D&D might be wasted; experience levels, magic and monsters were primarily (but far from exclusively) directed at combat. However, the primary game-oriented objective was gaining experience levels, and the overwhelmingly essential means to that end was securing treasure.Wandering monsters, lacking treasure, were profitably avoided. Monsters with but little treasure posed a question of risk and return on investment in dealing with them at all, and to get the treasure without a fight was not only preferable but sometimes very feasible.Monsters standing unavoidably between adventurers and an especially rich hoard (gems, jewelry, magic) posed the significant combat challenges.Traps were generally to be avoided at least as much as wandering monsters. Sometimes, though, they guarded worthy treasures. Sometimes, bypassing them opened a way to bypass a fight.Exploration was essential to forming sound strategies. The rich treasures had to be located before one could make an efficient plan to acquire them. Without knowing the disposition of monsters and traps, one could hardly plan and prepare for an assault and extraction. Optimal spell selection depended greatly on intelligence regarding the situations to be dealt with.Moreover, there were puzzles to solve, both in the "games and puzzles" sense and in the broader sense of mysteries. Either sort might veil advantages, and solutions might entail widely dispersed clues.(C) The real-time factor is a key practical consideration. The amount of play time demanded by a combat in 4E leaves so much less time per session for anything else -- including multiple fights. That makes wandering monsters and other distracting skirmishes a much greater penalty than formerly.</blockquote>

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