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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 3242388" data-attributes="member: 78">Group effecting enchantments are the win.&nbsp; Unless the enemies are immune, virtually immune, or very lucky, someone is going to fail.&nbsp; Even if some or even most of the baddies make the save, you'll still get some effect with something like Confusion or Mass Suggestion.&nbsp; Single target enchantments are somewhat unreliable and should probably be used sparingly in combat.&nbsp; Even if the DM isn't going to fudge the dice, the fact that you're going to bombing on the enemy's Will means that there's a pressure to find ways to increase so that the enemy provides the desired level of challenge.As always, appropriate target selection is a must.&nbsp; Throwing Will stuff at a cleric or druid is usually going to be a waste.&nbsp; It's good to have the ability to attack all saves, plus some no save stuff - a multithreat offense.&nbsp; Enchantment alone is going to provide pretty only Will stuff, plus a handful of buffs.&nbsp; You can use enchantments effectively, but probably not only enchantments.&nbsp; Even evocation provides a wider range of threats, since each energy type needs its own defense, plus it has battlefield control stuff.&nbsp; It's important to have enough other combat stuff (besides self defenses) to meaningfully contribute when the enemies are immune or resistant to your mind stuff - it also makes you less predictable.Social skills are good have when actually casting stuff is too high risk or resource intensive, but even wizards can do a decent job if you crossclass.As far as specific classes go, one level of mind bender is good for telepathy (making language dependent effects much less of a problem).&nbsp; Master specialist is good for a wizard.&nbsp; How attractive Beguiler is depends on how many other non-core spells you use (and what else is in the party).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Victim, post: 3242388, member: 78"] Group effecting enchantments are the win. Unless the enemies are immune, virtually immune, or very lucky, someone is going to fail. Even if some or even most of the baddies make the save, you'll still get some effect with something like Confusion or Mass Suggestion. Single target enchantments are somewhat unreliable and should probably be used sparingly in combat. Even if the DM isn't going to fudge the dice, the fact that you're going to bombing on the enemy's Will means that there's a pressure to find ways to increase so that the enemy provides the desired level of challenge. As always, appropriate target selection is a must. Throwing Will stuff at a cleric or druid is usually going to be a waste. It's good to have the ability to attack all saves, plus some no save stuff - a multithreat offense. Enchantment alone is going to provide pretty only Will stuff, plus a handful of buffs. You can use enchantments effectively, but probably not only enchantments. Even evocation provides a wider range of threats, since each energy type needs its own defense, plus it has battlefield control stuff. It's important to have enough other combat stuff (besides self defenses) to meaningfully contribute when the enemies are immune or resistant to your mind stuff - it also makes you less predictable. Social skills are good have when actually casting stuff is too high risk or resource intensive, but even wizards can do a decent job if you crossclass. As far as specific classes go, one level of mind bender is good for telepathy (making language dependent effects much less of a problem). Master specialist is good for a wizard. How attractive Beguiler is depends on how many other non-core spells you use (and what else is in the party). [/QUOTE]

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