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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 764052" data-attributes="member: 2013">Not trying to hijack the thread, but here's a question that occurred to me...Why is it that we hear far more cries for, &quot;why isn't there an evil version of this?&quot; or a &quot;vile version of this?&quot; or &quot;where can I find more options for evil?&quot; than we hear &quot;why isn't there a good versino of this?&quot; or a &quot;pure version of this?&quot; or &quot;where can I find more options for good?&quot;By my count, evil already has been explored in far more depth and has far more options/resources available to it.&nbsp; Evil has (in no particular order) a plethora of demons and devils, legions of undead and necromancers, &quot;vile&quot; spells (Book of Vile Darkness), the Shadow Weave (FR), and so on and so forth.Count the number of monsters by alignment in published works.&nbsp; You'll likely find that there are FAR more evil monsters than good ones (I expect neutral is about equal to evil).Why?&nbsp; Well, by default heroes are good, so they need a wider variety of foes to slay, right?&nbsp; But if by default heroes are good, why are people not asking for more options for their &quot;heroes?&quot;&nbsp; My personal feeling is that &quot;evil' seems more &quot;cool&quot; and/or seductive to play, so more people want it.&nbsp; An interesting thought for those who think evil has those qualities in real life. ;-)Let's turn this question around and if we can answer it to our satisfaction, perhaps we'll answer the paladin question as well...&quot;Why is there no anti-blackguard?&quot;&nbsp; Where is the Prestige Class that a reformed evil character can join?Finally, from a game mechanical standpoint, let's look at motivations a deity might have for granting a paladin his powers - a LG deity would grant a paladin powers of healing and so forth to protect both the weak and the paladin himself (preserve the paladin so he can continue to provide protection to others).&nbsp; IMO, there are few willing to walk this road, so LG Gods are (a) prone to invest a little more power into them to keep them alive and/or (b) since they're not splitting their power among as many sources, the paladin is a more concentrated vessel - and hence gets more powers.&nbsp; A LG deity is liable to trust a character with no prior record.&nbsp; You don't have to prove yourself to a LG deity - he takes you at your word (which is why he's quick to take your powers away should you falter).&nbsp;&nbsp; The LG deity will give you the loan first and expect payment later through your deeds over a lifetime.An evil deity, on the other hand, has no interest in promoting the welfare of others.&nbsp; Helping protect the weak doesn't matter to him - that doesn't increase his power.&nbsp; Thence, he will not have champions &quot;just to have them.&quot;&nbsp; He's got a &quot;what's in it for me?&quot; attitude.&nbsp; He doesn't want to invest power into a weakling who's going to get killed quickly... what a waste!&nbsp; You have more people willing to walk his &quot;easier&quot; road, so he has more places among which he must divest his power/concentration.&nbsp; That means any one place is likely to have less investiture than that of a good deity.&nbsp; In order to gain benefits comparable to those of a servant of good, you must have proved you have some value to the evil deity - he's selfish, remember - he wants to be paid first and will show you the power later.By this viewpoint, it makes sense that paladin is a core class and blackguard is a PrC... the paladin receives his powers as a token of good faith from his deity, who, being Good, is benevolent and willing to enter such an arrangement.&nbsp; That implies no past &quot;deeds&quot; are needed to qualify (hence, a first-level character is eligible).&nbsp; A blackguard has to prove himself in order to get his powers - the selfish nature of evil doesn't lend itself to giving out power as a token of good faith, so in order to get power from evil, you must &quot;prove yourself/get the attention of an evil power.&quot;&nbsp; That implies past deeds (aka prerequisites and therefore a prestige class).Perhaps not a perfect answer or thoughts, but they're mine.--The Sigil</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 764052, member: 2013"] Not trying to hijack the thread, but here's a question that occurred to me... Why is it that we hear far more cries for, "why isn't there an evil version of this?" or a "vile version of this?" or "where can I find more options for evil?" than we hear "why isn't there a good versino of this?" or a "pure version of this?" or "where can I find more options for good?" By my count, evil already has been explored in far more depth and has far more options/resources available to it. Evil has (in no particular order) a plethora of demons and devils, legions of undead and necromancers, "vile" spells (Book of Vile Darkness), the Shadow Weave (FR), and so on and so forth. Count the number of monsters by alignment in published works. You'll likely find that there are FAR more evil monsters than good ones (I expect neutral is about equal to evil). Why? Well, by default heroes are good, so they need a wider variety of foes to slay, right? But if by default heroes are good, why are people not asking for more options for their "heroes?" My personal feeling is that "evil' seems more "cool" and/or seductive to play, so more people want it. An interesting thought for those who think evil has those qualities in real life. ;-) Let's turn this question around and if we can answer it to our satisfaction, perhaps we'll answer the paladin question as well... "Why is there no anti-blackguard?" Where is the Prestige Class that a reformed evil character can join? Finally, from a game mechanical standpoint, let's look at motivations a deity might have for granting a paladin his powers - a LG deity would grant a paladin powers of healing and so forth to protect both the weak and the paladin himself (preserve the paladin so he can continue to provide protection to others). IMO, there are few willing to walk this road, so LG Gods are (a) prone to invest a little more power into them to keep them alive and/or (b) since they're not splitting their power among as many sources, the paladin is a more concentrated vessel - and hence gets more powers. A LG deity is liable to trust a character with no prior record. You don't have to prove yourself to a LG deity - he takes you at your word (which is why he's quick to take your powers away should you falter). The LG deity will give you the loan first and expect payment later through your deeds over a lifetime. An evil deity, on the other hand, has no interest in promoting the welfare of others. Helping protect the weak doesn't matter to him - that doesn't increase his power. Thence, he will not have champions "just to have them." He's got a "what's in it for me?" attitude. He doesn't want to invest power into a weakling who's going to get killed quickly... what a waste! You have more people willing to walk his "easier" road, so he has more places among which he must divest his power/concentration. That means any one place is likely to have less investiture than that of a good deity. In order to gain benefits comparable to those of a servant of good, you must have proved you have some value to the evil deity - he's selfish, remember - he wants to be paid first and will show you the power later. By this viewpoint, it makes sense that paladin is a core class and blackguard is a PrC... the paladin receives his powers as a token of good faith from his deity, who, being Good, is benevolent and willing to enter such an arrangement. That implies no past "deeds" are needed to qualify (hence, a first-level character is eligible). A blackguard has to prove himself in order to get his powers - the selfish nature of evil doesn't lend itself to giving out power as a token of good faith, so in order to get power from evil, you must "prove yourself/get the attention of an evil power." That implies past deeds (aka prerequisites and therefore a prestige class). Perhaps not a perfect answer or thoughts, but they're mine. --The Sigil [/QUOTE]

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