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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Shaman" data-source="post: 2743361" data-attributes="member: 26473">And you still play with him because...?Please excuse my confusion, but that's not how lethal and non-lethal damage work in the game - what you described  was VP/WP.(And if I may disagree with C. Baize in this instance, some Modern gamers like the nonlethal rules as written, though admittedly we are probably in the minority.)On a critical hit you can do 16 points of damage, and there are feats and class features that allow expanded critical range or confirmation of a critical at the cost of an AP.  d20 Modern is not intended to be a real-world combat simulator, anymore than Dungeons and Dragons is expected to be a historical medieval combat simulator. However, that's not to say that you must entirely check you suspension of disbelief at the door.And here we come to the crux of the matter: as in Dungeons and Dragons, hit points represent more than the physical ability to take damage - they are toughness, agility, luck, and karma all wrapped up in one easy to manage mechanic.Critical failures and fumbles are not a feature of the d20 Modern rules - again, this is something your GM houseruled into the game.Again, hit points are not just the ability to absorb physical damage - this is as fundamental to Modern as it is to D&D.Some gamers never seem to be able to suspend disbelief in this regard - however, that's not a problem with the rules of the game, but rather your expectations of how the rules should work. The rules as written work quite well, if you accept the underlying assumptions that go with them.Also, a problem I've noted is that some GMs allow their players to create overpowered characters, and then complain that weapon damage or other combat rules are "unrealistic" or "underpowered." Using the standard array for ability scores is a good way to maintain a more dangerous environment for player characters, as many weapons can exceed the massive damage threshold pretty readily.IMX you can have a "grim 'n' gritty" Modern game without tweaking a thing - all it takes is a bit of roleplaying to bring the mechanics to life. And since this is a roleplaying game, not a first-person shooter or a tactical wargame, that doesn't seem to be too much to ask.I run a Modern military game using the combat and injury rules as written, and yes, it is both 'cinematic' in that the heroes can in fact be expected to behave like heroes while at the same time experiencing the rigors of battlefield combat. It is possible to have both using d20 Modern, IMX.</blockquote>

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