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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 2747810" data-attributes="member: 12332">Good points all, Chuck.  I was just thinking more about "lethality as realism", and was contemplating things much along the points you're making.Alot of DEATHS attributed to guns, I think, are what game mechanics would term more as CDGs or surprise attacks of some type.  Close range, non-combative situations in which one person is entirely in control of what is going on and where/how another person is going to receive the bullet.Which led me to think back to a recreation-of-history bit I saw a while back on the infamous Shoot-Out At the OK Corral.  What I came away from that show with is this:  The shoot-out happened at ranges of 30' or less.  An inordinate number of bullets were fired that never hit ANYBODY.  And that it was really the surprise factor and luck that led to victory on one side or the other.  And the science behind that worked for me.  Adrenaline and fear.  People are so jacked up that their fine motor control goes out the window.  Primal flight reflexes and all that.  So people standing 15' apart might unload on eachother and hit nothing but air, as they're MORE concerned with hoping not to get shot than they are on hoping they shoot the other guy.Which holds with your father in law's recollection of WWII, and my father's seldom-told tales of 'Nam.  Pop got shot a few times, and shot at a few more people, but mostly where most of the dying went on was when he was firing something big and nasty at folks who were little more than shapes in the distance.Not that people don't get killed with gun.  Lots of them every day.  But I don't think alot of them are in situations where both sides are armed and firing at eachother in reasonably small spaces ... I.E. RPG Combat Model.  I don't often see mechanics for "Whizzing Yourself In Panic While Firing" or "Jacked Up On Adrenaline Till You Can't Shoot Straight".  Folks get all concerned about damage and shock and bleeding and recoil and caliber and powder load and how strong you have to be to effectively fire a particular weapon ... but what about lovingly crafted rules for body-chemical-induced panic, shell-shock, and voiding yourself after getting shot?<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />--fje</blockquote>

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