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<blockquote data-quote="Staffan" data-source="post: 9614994" data-attributes="member: 907">I think one issue with 3e was that higher-level spells were both more impactful and harder to save against. I think it would have been interesting to see some interplay there. Perhaps this could be combined with hp thresholds for incapacitating spells á la 13th age. Maybe you could have blindness and hold person both as 2nd level spells, but hold person only affects something with up to 15 hp and blindness up to 25.Of course, that would require an openness with mechanics that many DMs are not willing to entertain.But I think a related core problem with 3e was the way every number &quot;cascaded&quot; through the system, and the way this created interdependencies between stats. Take the Grey Render as an example of a big brute of a monster. It's CR 8, and comes with 125 hp, which I'll for the sake of argument say is fine for a CR 8 big brute. But the reason it has those 125 hp is that it has 10 HD, each of those HD is a d10 (because they're Magical Beasts), and it has an additional 70 hp because of its Constitution of 24 (which is a +7 per HD). This in turn then gives it a Fortitude save of +14 (2+HD/2+Con), a Reflex save of +7 (2+HD/2+Dex, which is 0), and a Will save of of +4 (HD/3+Wis which is 1). So they have a 10-point discrepancy between Fortitude and Will saves – so if you have the right spell it's going to fold like laundry. Something like 4e or PF2 would probably be a much better way of building monsters: put in the monster's target CR/level and its role, and then you'll get hp, AC, attack bonuses, saves, and all that other stuff from that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Staffan, post: 9614994, member: 907"] I think one issue with 3e was that higher-level spells were both more impactful [B]and[/B] harder to save against. I think it would have been interesting to see some interplay there. Perhaps this could be combined with hp thresholds for incapacitating spells á la 13th age. Maybe you could have [I]blindness[/I] and [I]hold person[/I] both as 2nd level spells, but [I]hold person[/I] only affects something with up to 15 hp and [I]blindness[/I] up to 25. Of course, that would require an openness with mechanics that many DMs are not willing to entertain. But I think a related core problem with 3e was the way every number "cascaded" through the system, and the way this created interdependencies between stats. Take the Grey Render as an example of a big brute of a monster. It's CR 8, and comes with 125 hp, which I'll for the sake of argument say is fine for a CR 8 big brute. But the reason it has those 125 hp is that it has 10 HD, each of those HD is a d10 (because they're Magical Beasts), and it has an additional 70 hp because of its Constitution of 24 (which is a +7 per HD). This in turn then gives it a Fortitude save of +14 (2+HD/2+Con), a Reflex save of +7 (2+HD/2+Dex, which is 0), and a Will save of of +4 (HD/3+Wis which is 1). So they have a 10-point discrepancy between Fortitude and Will saves – so if you have the right spell it's going to fold like laundry. Something like 4e or PF2 would probably be a much better way of building monsters: put in the monster's target CR/level and its role, and then you'll get hp, AC, attack bonuses, saves, and all that other stuff from that. [/QUOTE]

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