Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is there room in modern gaming for the OSR to bring in new gamers?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Rob Kuntz" data-source="post: 8279802" data-attributes="member: 7015759"><p>As always you are very thoughtful. </p><p></p><p>OK. TT Games preceding RPGS are not a good comparison. This is a new game form. We are adding to it and have the ability in real time to change it, sometimes drastically, depending. It is of itself an evolving, living design and play form and is unlike any other game in the history of games.</p><p></p><p>To the evolvement issue of the OSR, I will clarify. Given that there is no one true path for implementing the game, it is then conceivable that thousands of individual variations would occur as was the case initially (apprx. 1974-1977). When that began dropping off, and then later stopped occurring in the vast majority of cases, coincided with a move to "Standardization". With that came the jettisoning of main-line design thinking "within" the game and its play. This also coincided with the RPGA's way of "doing it correctly" in TSR sponsored tournament play. All of this contributed to a precise, predictable system and allowed the DMs for the most part to slightly adjust some of the system. This was, "get on board with this one system" and tinker within its confines rather than promoting hundreds to thousands of variations that could have lead to new and evolved RPG matter as then understood (whether adjacent to D&D or not, didn't matter). Information and inquiry became very narrow to fit into this marketed model. This calcification is what lead to the "One True Wayism" of closed models which persists to this day, no matter what system is now played 1st-5th.</p><p></p><p>So, no, in light of what I believe people believe the OSR cannot evolve as a group if they were to adhere to a group principal only. But individuals make up groups; and the OSR has seemingly abandoned on the individual level of progressing the concept as was originally recommended and exampled.</p><p></p><p>Arneson and his group, after 1.5 years of playing Blackmoor, was STILL iterating the rules and the play forms (and thus expanding the world information) by experimenting with both categories: Kind & Degree, this before presenting it to us in 1972. Then we did the same for over a year. The rules and play grew in the backwash of the play-tests until Gary thought we had the base amount to launch. This base, we figured and just as Arneson had done, and as we had done, would be filled in by those who experimented further with their own variations or who would cover what we had not experienced (in the infinite possibilities of a Fantasy world) and thus expose matter that we could not have foreseen for the limitless data variations. Thus from Arneson to us, to hundreds of initial DMs and players evolution was encouraged; and due to the infinite range and possibilities attending the infinite realm of Fantasy it was a given that game/play evolvement would occur and indeed persist.</p><p></p><p>But markets will be markets. The median market (which rejected D&D as a design philosophy model) is not where the D&D-RPG concept was produced and IMO is not its final destination. There's more to Fantasy than meets the eye and the adventures to uncover its many facets will continue even if the systems that could allow for its summoning do circle too comfortably and are too content as of late.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rob Kuntz, post: 8279802, member: 7015759"] As always you are very thoughtful. OK. TT Games preceding RPGS are not a good comparison. This is a new game form. We are adding to it and have the ability in real time to change it, sometimes drastically, depending. It is of itself an evolving, living design and play form and is unlike any other game in the history of games. To the evolvement issue of the OSR, I will clarify. Given that there is no one true path for implementing the game, it is then conceivable that thousands of individual variations would occur as was the case initially (apprx. 1974-1977). When that began dropping off, and then later stopped occurring in the vast majority of cases, coincided with a move to "Standardization". With that came the jettisoning of main-line design thinking "within" the game and its play. This also coincided with the RPGA's way of "doing it correctly" in TSR sponsored tournament play. All of this contributed to a precise, predictable system and allowed the DMs for the most part to slightly adjust some of the system. This was, "get on board with this one system" and tinker within its confines rather than promoting hundreds to thousands of variations that could have lead to new and evolved RPG matter as then understood (whether adjacent to D&D or not, didn't matter). Information and inquiry became very narrow to fit into this marketed model. This calcification is what lead to the "One True Wayism" of closed models which persists to this day, no matter what system is now played 1st-5th. So, no, in light of what I believe people believe the OSR cannot evolve as a group if they were to adhere to a group principal only. But individuals make up groups; and the OSR has seemingly abandoned on the individual level of progressing the concept as was originally recommended and exampled. Arneson and his group, after 1.5 years of playing Blackmoor, was STILL iterating the rules and the play forms (and thus expanding the world information) by experimenting with both categories: Kind & Degree, this before presenting it to us in 1972. Then we did the same for over a year. The rules and play grew in the backwash of the play-tests until Gary thought we had the base amount to launch. This base, we figured and just as Arneson had done, and as we had done, would be filled in by those who experimented further with their own variations or who would cover what we had not experienced (in the infinite possibilities of a Fantasy world) and thus expose matter that we could not have foreseen for the limitless data variations. Thus from Arneson to us, to hundreds of initial DMs and players evolution was encouraged; and due to the infinite range and possibilities attending the infinite realm of Fantasy it was a given that game/play evolvement would occur and indeed persist. But markets will be markets. The median market (which rejected D&D as a design philosophy model) is not where the D&D-RPG concept was produced and IMO is not its final destination. There's more to Fantasy than meets the eye and the adventures to uncover its many facets will continue even if the systems that could allow for its summoning do circle too comfortably and are too content as of late. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is there room in modern gaming for the OSR to bring in new gamers?
Top