Is there still innovation in the RPG industry?

[dreamthief]

Warren Spector, who has a RPG background, gave a speech on how sequels and licensed products were killing innovation in the computer gaming world. I was wondering what people here thought about that for the RPG world. Were there still innovative products appearing? I can cite some examples such as Direkobold's Xenogenic publishing system, and PDFs which have allowed small publishers to come up with interesting products at little risk.

Maybe something to consider for next year's ENnies. Products that push innovation in the RPG/D20 world; whether mechanics, software or other.

By the way, Spector's speech is viewable here:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20030416/spector_01.shtml

 

[Kichwas]

d20 itself was an innovation. No it's not the first of it's kind of thing - even if people here might think it is, but the way it was done, and what it done with make it a major innovation in RPGs.

The new Marvel RPG is a solid innovation as a completely non random RPG that at the same time has a mechanics based approach with objective resolution that is not predetermined but is based on strategy and tactics. In truth, at present it is the only RPG -EVER- that has taken a tactics based approach as it's system of resolution (even previous non random RPGs failed to truly deliver this). I'm not yet sure if I like or dislike the game, but I've seen enough to know it's full of major innovations.

7th Sea had an innovation I've yet to see resurface, but if it does it could completely rewrite one popular aspect of nearly all non D20 based RPGs... In 7th Sea disads/flaws cost points rather than reward them, but give XP when they come up in play. Thsi completely flips the axiom of disads from something the players try to trick the GM into avoiding into something the players strive to have actively hinder their characters. Couple that with a good list of disads and you could go a long way towards encouraging roleplay and actually getting people to enjoy roleplay who were not previously inclined to it.

But now I'm going back in time, if I keep this up I'll end up on a discussion of Dice pools and generic RPGs... Let's move forward...

Sovereign Stone has a major innovation in it's magic system, which is a completely different way doing spells in d20 that allows for a much more open ended approach and a much more mystical result. It still needs work, but it shows amazing promise as a new angle.

Mutants and Masterminds had two major innovations for d20:
1: d20 without classes or levels. The point based design system works and could be adopted into other genres by wise parties.
2: d20 without hitpoints. The damage save completely revolutionizes tracking injury in an RPG and moves it from 'bean counting' where a player knows just how much injury they can take and how long they can keep fighting to something where they never know just when they will fail and fall, so they handle risk taking in a much more -in the moment- manner. You feel the danger much more in MnM, because you cannot predict the results ahead of time.

There are many more innovations out there... but those are the ones I know best. For people not willing to go as far as Sovereign Stone's magic system, the system presented in AEG's Magic is a minor innovation. But it's actually just a reflection of a common first edition house rule brought into d20.

 

[Mark]

There are certainly a lot of licensed products on the market and that can be a good thing provided they are true to their source but leave room for further development. I'm not a fan of games that simply allow a player or players to rehash what fans already know about a setting. This goes as much for settings based on books as for movies or television licensing. In essence there needs to be a balance between keeping the feel while not forcing the story into the game.

 

[Malin Genie]

Try here as a starting point. Many of the most original and interesting RPGs aren't widely distributed, and some only available online.

I strongly recommend trying Universalis for something a little off the beaten track.

 

[Umbran]

Let's not forget Godlike for it's pretty unique dice mechanic, and the non-d20 Deadlands for it's interesting use fo playing cards...

 

[Desdichado]

I've never heard of an industry that was characterized by constant innovation -- it's always building on established successful formulae with spurts and fits of innovation. RPGs (and computer games) are no different in that regard. I'd not say that either is prone to noninnovation currently, just that there's not tons going on at any given moment. But, as I said, there never is, at any given moment.

If anything, the open climate and "renewed golden age" that is currently going on in RPGs encourages innovation to start making it's way forward more and more right now, moreso than in the past, I'd wager.

 

[Praeco]

Take a look at Nobilis sometime. While 'diceless' roleplaying is not really new, Nobilis gives it a fresh face and adds an intriguing premise.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Maybe something to consider for next year's ENnies. Products that push innovation in the RPG/D20 world; whether mechanics, software or other.

I can say that the judges do indeed already consider innovation as one of the criteria for judging the products entered into the ENnies.

 

[Henry]

Unfortunately, I am not a member of gamastura.com, nor do I wish to sign up in order to read this article (and spread my personal info even further), but I will say this:

Recognition of innovation only comes after the fact - sometimes WAAAY after. When I have seen complaints in the past that "d20 is killing the industry!" and "open gaming licenses are killing innovation!" My first thought are that those who make such claims are using different frames of reference for "life" and "death" with respect to the RPG market.

No disrespect meant, but is it possible that Mr. Spector may not see any innovation, because it's not HIS kind of innovation? Is innovation defined by brand-new mechanics for every system, or is it mechanics, concepts, and technologies that are successful?

I see more gamers now than at any time in the past ten years, I see new blood streaming into the hobby, and I see fascinating twists on existing rules sets, such as Mutants and Masterminds, Everquest RPG, products like Testament, CMG's "Flavor Generators" (the concept is not new, but the implementation has been taken to a higher level), etc.

I'm sure there are many cutting-edge products that I'm missing that have come to fruition in the OGL. My point is that prior to the OGL and other similar licenses, there was just as much "true" innovation as there is now. For every hundred gaming products, there is one that stands head and shoulders above with bold new concepts and mechanics that are worth using and re-using. I don't see lack of innovation, I see the same pace of true innovation as has always been there.

 

[mearls]

Innovation as a word has been beaten to death by marketters and fans, and I think it has lost almost all its original meaning.

Most RPG producers and hardcore RPG fans tend to define innovative games or mechanics as different without concern for their utility. A game that uses pretzels instead of dice would be innovative, even if there's no real gain in efficiency or enjoyment from using them.

True innovation echoes throughout the basic design and form of an industry. It spawns imitation. Novelty spawns marketing hype.

In terms of RPGs, the only real innovation I've seen in the past 10 years is the OGL. Most of the innovation in this industry has taken place outside of RPG development: clicky based games, CCGs.

This doesn't mean that innovation is impossible in RPGs. I just think it's harder, because the form has been around for so long and most designers confuse novelty for true strides forward in design. There's also a sense that to move RPG design forward, it has to push towards a story-based, literary model, despite the fact that such games never prove popular.