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<blockquote data-quote="Puggins" data-source="post: 8061483" data-attributes="member: 12386">To start with, I think 5e and pf2 are both very worthy games.&nbsp; their relative levels of complexity mean they'll share a large swath of target audience, with differences on the edges- some 5e fans will think that pf2 is way too complex, some pf2 fans will think than 5e is way too simple (I'm leaning towards the latter, though I'm still a 5e consumer).&nbsp; Most fans, I think, will be comfortable with either one.1. One of the big differences I've found with pf2, now having played it for several months, is that you don't have to do anywhere near the amount of arithmetic that PF1 forces you to do.&nbsp; I mean, it's night and day.&nbsp; If you write down your base attacks, you're practically there.&nbsp; We're talking:5e--------PF2-------------------------------------------------------------------------------PF1Very few bonuses are transitory.&nbsp; Here's a basic short sword attack routine:1st attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus -&gt; +4 + 4 + 4 + 1 = +132nd attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus - 4 -&gt; +4 +4 +4 +1 -4 = +93rd attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus - 8 -&gt; +4 +4 +4 +1 -8 = +5If you write that down, you've done almost all the work you need to do.&nbsp; When you actually attack, you have to check if the opponent is flat footed, you have to check your statuses (mostly if you're enfeebled or dazzled), or if there's a circumstance bonus (you're under bless, for example).&nbsp; That;s your attack. Vastly simpler calculation than PF1, definitely more involved than 5e.&nbsp; Note that I don't mind doing math on the fly, so I definitely tolerate complexity a lot more than other people.2.&nbsp; You have a ton of choices, but most of them give you more breadth, not more depth.&nbsp; In other words, making the &quot;wrong&quot; choice in PF2 means that you might not have a neat ability to use in certain situations.&nbsp; But your character core is reasonably constant- I mean, if you choose all the feats dealing with dual wielding then decide to carry around a great weapon you simply won't be as good as a guy who stays reasonably on point, but we're talking 70-80% effectiveness, not 20%, like PF1 or 3e.&nbsp; I think they do a pretty good job here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Puggins, post: 8061483, member: 12386"] To start with, I think 5e and pf2 are both very worthy games. their relative levels of complexity mean they'll share a large swath of target audience, with differences on the edges- some 5e fans will think that pf2 is way too complex, some pf2 fans will think than 5e is way too simple (I'm leaning towards the latter, though I'm still a 5e consumer). Most fans, I think, will be comfortable with either one. 1. One of the big differences I've found with pf2, now having played it for several months, is that you don't have to do anywhere near the amount of arithmetic that PF1 forces you to do. I mean, it's night and day. If you write down your base attacks, you're practically there. We're talking: 5e--------PF2-------------------------------------------------------------------------------PF1 Very few bonuses are transitory. Here's a basic short sword attack routine: 1st attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus -> +4 + 4 + 4 + 1 = +13 2nd attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus - 4 -> +4 +4 +4 +1 -4 = +9 3rd attack: Strength + Proficiency Level + Level + Item Bonus - 8 -> +4 +4 +4 +1 -8 = +5 If you write that down, you've done almost all the work you need to do. When you actually attack, you have to check if the opponent is flat footed, you have to check your statuses (mostly if you're enfeebled or dazzled), or if there's a circumstance bonus (you're under bless, for example). That;s your attack. Vastly simpler calculation than PF1, definitely more involved than 5e. Note that I don't mind doing math on the fly, so I definitely tolerate complexity a lot more than other people. 2. You have a ton of choices, but most of them give you more breadth, not more depth. In other words, making the "wrong" choice in PF2 means that you might not have a neat ability to use in certain situations. But your character core is reasonably constant- I mean, if you choose all the feats dealing with dual wielding then decide to carry around a great weapon you simply won't be as good as a guy who stays reasonably on point, but we're talking 70-80% effectiveness, not 20%, like PF1 or 3e. I think they do a pretty good job here. [/QUOTE]

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