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Is this a fair review of PF2?
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8094822" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>First off a direct reply to one possible direction you might take this is: yes, I'm aware of posters claiming you can't see if an attack actually took a bite out of the monster's hit points unless you have an ability that says so, meaning that you can attack a monster highly resistant to your weapon several times without the GM being obliged to tell you "you only deal 1 point of damage each time" (or something). I find that stance ridiculous and I can only suggest you ignore it.</p><p></p><p>If that wasn't what you were going for, then I'm afraid this is the dreaded "what is hit points really?" discussion...!</p><p></p><p>It boils down to the social contract of playing. Tracking HP can only ever be a gentleman's agreement that "hit points represent what makes for the most fun play experience". You can never logically convince anyone that hit points is physical wounds, or just heroic weariness, or energy and morale... Or any other specific damage model because it is <em>all these things and none of them</em> at the same time. <span style="font-size: 12px"><em>And yes, I'm aware of the irony in trying to do just that...</em></span></p><p></p><p><em>Hit points is whatever serves the need of the story.</em></p><p></p><p>Since these needs vary wildly between different scenarios (or even different attacks in one and the same fight) you will never be able to lock down precisely what hit points represent. In one instance, the story might allow for you to rest a day (or a month), and in that scenario, losing 70 hit points can represent physical injuries that need time to heal. But in another instance, the story hinges on you pressing on right now, with not a moment to spare, and so there 70 damage must mean getting the wind knocked out of you, or you becoming momentarily demoralized or something. The second you lock down hit points to mean just one or a few of these things, you have severely reduced the kinds of stories you can tell with the game.</p><p></p><p>(I'm not saying this to tell you you're playing the game badwrongfun. I'm saying this to explain why WotC and Paizo will never commit to any single damage explanation, since it would severely reduce the number of customers that can use their product to tell their stories. Not only do "amorphous" hit points work for both action-heavy and moderately-gritty storytellers, it is required for those of us who enjoys telling both kinds of stories, sometimes even at once!)</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Back to Pathfinder 2; preventing the heroes from healing up completely between encounters is a mistake. Just forcing the heroes into a fight at, say, half hp drastically increases the risk of character death (and eventually a TPK) in ways you probably don't intend. This approach might work in AD&D, but it does not work in PF2 (unless you deviate from the recommended encounter budgets).</p><p></p><p>That does not mean you can't model longer lasting injuries in Pathfinder 2 - just that you need to use much less obvious tools to do it.</p><p></p><p>That tool is <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx" target="_blank">Conditions</a>. I suggest looking at Fatigued to begin with - asking the heroes to keep pressing on while Fatigued is already a big ask given the mathematical underpinnings of that game, and you can pile on Drained or Doomed if you know what you're doing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8094822, member: 12731"] First off a direct reply to one possible direction you might take this is: yes, I'm aware of posters claiming you can't see if an attack actually took a bite out of the monster's hit points unless you have an ability that says so, meaning that you can attack a monster highly resistant to your weapon several times without the GM being obliged to tell you "you only deal 1 point of damage each time" (or something). I find that stance ridiculous and I can only suggest you ignore it. If that wasn't what you were going for, then I'm afraid this is the dreaded "what is hit points really?" discussion...! It boils down to the social contract of playing. Tracking HP can only ever be a gentleman's agreement that "hit points represent what makes for the most fun play experience". You can never logically convince anyone that hit points is physical wounds, or just heroic weariness, or energy and morale... Or any other specific damage model because it is [I]all these things and none of them[/I] at the same time. [SIZE=3][I]And yes, I'm aware of the irony in trying to do just that...[/I][/SIZE] [I]Hit points is whatever serves the need of the story.[/I] Since these needs vary wildly between different scenarios (or even different attacks in one and the same fight) you will never be able to lock down precisely what hit points represent. In one instance, the story might allow for you to rest a day (or a month), and in that scenario, losing 70 hit points can represent physical injuries that need time to heal. But in another instance, the story hinges on you pressing on right now, with not a moment to spare, and so there 70 damage must mean getting the wind knocked out of you, or you becoming momentarily demoralized or something. The second you lock down hit points to mean just one or a few of these things, you have severely reduced the kinds of stories you can tell with the game. (I'm not saying this to tell you you're playing the game badwrongfun. I'm saying this to explain why WotC and Paizo will never commit to any single damage explanation, since it would severely reduce the number of customers that can use their product to tell their stories. Not only do "amorphous" hit points work for both action-heavy and moderately-gritty storytellers, it is required for those of us who enjoys telling both kinds of stories, sometimes even at once!) --- Back to Pathfinder 2; preventing the heroes from healing up completely between encounters is a mistake. Just forcing the heroes into a fight at, say, half hp drastically increases the risk of character death (and eventually a TPK) in ways you probably don't intend. This approach might work in AD&D, but it does not work in PF2 (unless you deviate from the recommended encounter budgets). That does not mean you can't model longer lasting injuries in Pathfinder 2 - just that you need to use much less obvious tools to do it. That tool is [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx']Conditions[/URL]. I suggest looking at Fatigued to begin with - asking the heroes to keep pressing on while Fatigued is already a big ask given the mathematical underpinnings of that game, and you can pile on Drained or Doomed if you know what you're doing. [/QUOTE]
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