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Message: <blockquote data-quote="willrali" data-source="post: 8097046" data-attributes="member: 37541">That seems excessive. My group never spends more than five minutes on this.Regardless, I think folks are putting too much burden for time wasteage onto the system. Much of the question of 'how much time do you spend bogged down' is determined by the people in your group. I've had extremely fast and slick experiences with systems as diverse as GURPS, AD&D 2, Vampire and Pathfinder. When people know the rules (or when the DM is highly versed in the rules and can make quick decisions), and when they're engaged and want to keep things moving, things move fast.Otherwise, they don't, and this holds even for the lightest of rules systems.If you've disengaged players who couldn't give a fig about learning the system and what they can do in it, roleplaying games in general are the wrong answer. Try trivial pursuit.</blockquote>