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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8097758" data-attributes="member: 12731">Exactly, except its even worse than this.After you leave the lowest levels, the character with Medicine gets the choice between aiming for DC 15 or DC 20, where a success on DC 20 provides a +10 bonus to the amount healed. On the other hand, scoring a critical success on the DC 15 roll (=rolling 25 or higher) doubles the dice (from 2d8 to 4d8).So what'll it be? Going for DC 15 for 2d8 healing (with an ever-greater shot at 4d8) or DC 20 for 2d8+10 healing?The same scenario repeats later on (DC 30 for +30? DC 40 for +50?). And in fact, you're asked to make these decisions each and every time. At least until you finally break down and take the time to crunch the numbers to calculate averages so you can always make the better choice (or give up and take <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=756" target="_blank">Assurance</a> for your Medicine skill...), you have a clear risk of analysis paralysis each and every time it's time to make that Treat Wounds check.You can easily get a discussion where the player with the Medicine skill asks the wounded character's player what to choose. That player isn't interested or informed, and shoots back the decision to the healer... and then repeat this for each healer-healee pairing and I can easily see this taking 40 minutes of real time at least once!Also note:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">unless the healer has taken a feat (Continual Recovery) you're then immune to further Treat Wounds for 1 hour.... unless the healer keeps healing you (with his successful check) for the full hour, in which case you're healed twice the regular amount.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">most characters with Medicine takes Battle Medicine which lets you do a one-action heal (=suitable for combat). Problem is, the target is then immune to your Battle Medicine for one day, so everybody needs to remember from which allies they've received a Battle Medicine. (It's not unreasonable to expect several characters getting this since it's so good and costs relatively little - one skill pick plus one skill feat. But the web of "who healed whom" quickly requires pen and paper to track!)</li> </ul>This is just one of the rules subsystems that comes across as written by an overenthusiastic fan rather than a professional game designer. It's not that it is impossibly crunchy.It's more why am I asked to make these decisions??? when nothing of it ultimately matters, since we're not moving until we're reasonably healthy anyway?!? (I've already flagged the incongruity with regards to the other downtime activities that Frozen mentions - if you rest for 50 or 70 minutes, their choices cease to matter, since everybody has time to do everything)Remember, if players attempt to do the heroic thing of pressing on at half health... the game will instantly punish them by making even Low-difficulty encounters lethal...<a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=771" target="_blank">Continual Recovery</a> (as discussed above) is a good example of the feat bloat in the game - every little thing is gated behind a feat. Meaning that the enormous amount of choice in the game is fairly artificial - while 5E is designed with philosophy to (for the most part) have choices that give you stuff that expand your character, PF2 is littered with feats that mostly come across as limiters only: without the feat you feel wonkily restricted, so you get the feat to be able to keep doing your stuff reasonably well. As you level up expectations increase, and in too many cases you have to take a feat to not reach a ceiling.The difference can perhaps be expressed like this:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you don't need this feat, but if you take it you will become awesome! (5th Edition)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you need this feat! It won't make you feel awesome, but you'll avoid feeling hamstrung if you take it! (Pathfinder 2)</li> </ul>In large parts the ability to offer choices comes from making the baseline abilities as limited and restricted as possible, so the rules can then offer several feats that ease one such restriction each.I far prefer an enabling, generous design philosophy over a design that continuously reminds you of limitations.</blockquote>

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